Toriyama's SUPER SAIYAN 4 EXPLAINED | Dragon Ball Daima

Why do the eyebrows return after SS3 removed them?

You’d think each new subsequent transformation would get more primal

I love that it’s been brought back but I also love that they are two different versions and that it’s very differently achieved

I would of preferred ss4 Gogeta’s color scheme over Daima’s version. Just looks better to me IMO

Welcome back man

I wish it was against a better enemy. Not gomah. His design hard to take serious. He give bad comedic relief vibes off his goofy appearance alone. Degesu should have got third eye at least his design i can take serious

Prefer the black hair version.

Idc how ppl feel about it. Toriyama way to achieve "SSJ4" was executed way better that GT. By logic GT way was stupid. Control golden great ape to get 4 is stupid. Because by this logic any SSJ1 could become SSJ4 skipping SSJ2 and SSJ3 if you only need to control super saiyan great ape. That means its not truly SSJ4 if you can skip 2 and 3 by this method.

Appreciate the breakdown, great video! 🔥

Katsu’s design is better. The magic ass pull makes me hate it in Daima. Less impactful, more for fan service since its either a retcon and not canon. Daima has been stated to be inspired by GT, so GT haters just sound dumb for hating it for stuff they should hate DB for in general, GT just gets retcons and hate.

Should make ssj4 gogeta with black hair lol.

Neva is going to wipe everybody's memories to protect the existence of the demon realm and thus ssj4 will be forgotten.

The OG ssj4 is still the best hands down!

The only thing I don’t like about it is the form not going through the Oozaru transformations first.

I have to say the one thing that bothers me about the new ssj4 are the bigger hands. I know why they are there but it just feels weird. Love the video and breakdown btw. Keep up the excellent work😁

yeah i agree the theory that makes most sense is neva is helping goku keep that state with whatever he gave him since it was a forced unnatural transformation. Meaning he could attain it naturally in the future arcs of super which would be so cool.

Unfortunately, Diama's "SSJ4" is nothing but a cheap, botched imitation of the real SSJ4 from GT, achieved through lazy writing. Hope the form gets dropped for good after this. The design is an abomination to OG SSJ4 transformation and calling it SSJ4 is an even bigger abomination. It's more like "SSJ4 Diapers", not the real SSJ4 which they did NOT make cannon.

When Goku first transformed into Super Sayian God the community theorized he could only transform each time with other sayians… I’m here to say he’ll reveal why he doesn’t actively use SSJ4 now it’s canon in Super sooner than later 😂

i wish ssj4limitbreak gogeta or vegito should appear in dialma on upcoming episodes 🎉😊

This is the same thing everyone was theorizing when goku went ssj god when super comes back goku going to figure out how to tap into that form again

I think people keep forgetting Neva unlocked goku’s potential he didn’t use magic he unlocked the potential of the tamagamis aswell with that being said this isnt a magic based form rather a deep hidden potential that goku had yet to achieve same with ultra Instict
Gohan had his potential unlocked twice and once he was in his “ultimate “ state could ascend even higher this ssj4 is similar to Orange Piccolo “ something a little extra “ as shenron said was piccolos awakening into his new form this is literally the same so literally the title of episode 18 gave away that this is a natural transformation but deep down with it

The whole mortals being able to not sense God ki was kinda retcon cause it was said that kid buu had god ki and they could sense his energy

I can add an info that seems everyone skipped on "DBS Broly":

When Goku fought Broly after Vegeta, he clearly said to Broly:

"You're using the form that use the power of the oozaru without transforming into it...!"

That's the only mention of the SSJ4 in all Super, but the one that prepared some of us to see it again really soon...

Well, the only explanation about it is that Goku was to King Kai to improve and reach that form (without knowing that it depends by the tail) and the events were so fast that he had to quit tryn to reach SSJ4 to study with Whis....that's the only logic way a guess...!

And yes, i think that the Daima's SSJ4 is last design of SSJ4 Full Power (how shown on DBS HERO, when SSJ4 reach the full power, in that case powered up by Goku and Vegeta of the Super's timeline plus Chrono Trunks - from the same timeline of Goku and Vegeta GT - in the same way that Gohan, Goten, Trunks and Pan did on Planet Plant with Goku, to make him reach is 100% against Baby: same aura, same pur/hair color, just take a look at it ^^ ).

Pratically Neva boosted Goku to his best form as a sayan. 90% the "black hair" form is still the firs step. Backin on Broly, when he use his first transformation, his eyes becomes yellow as a SSJ4...!


Guess 1+1 is 2

The animation in Daima is awesome🔥 I think this is the best animation of any dragon ball. And the theme song tops the one from gt in my opinion

Both have a primal looking design.But i like the original GT ver one.Look more baddass and powerfull as hell.

Well i hope that db daima has more ep left because i really want to see how vegeta turn ssj 4 in DB daima.Since goku got his ssj4 form by neva helped (which is magic) ,this time i wanna see vegeta turn ssj4 with naturally which go through oozaru form first.


Toriyama should be clear about this cause the ssj 4 transformation is new to them(since it canon).So he need to present to us about the natural way to becoming the ssj 4 for saiyan race.Btw i dont see that vegeta was shocked when goku turn into that new form which is ssj4.They dont show any reaction except his reaction to the goku ssj 4 ki.

Unfortunately there is no manga nor the script Toriyama wrote for Daima available for fans to read to confirm SSJ4 was introduced by Toriyama or not

the whole not sensing god ki is bs since that went out the window after frieza came back. it was never brought up again far as i remember

red hair was a miss. that shoulda been kept for Gogeta SSJ4 in the first place, & the fact that SSJ God comes later, it muddles it up too much

I honestly hope that the reason goku doesn't use ssj4 is because it's too powerful and he's not use to maintaining that power completely because he discovered the god forms and was busy training with whis and beerus and that he starts using it because it's raw power.

I think Beerus is a big reason as to why SSJ4 is suppressed during Super.

“Some wonder why we don’t see it in super”
Breh… super animation can’t handle ssj4. Simple.
The whole reason they had to make Daima was to make up for the SLOTH that was super

The biggest problem with Daima is that it came out of nowhere, but that's my only complaint. Far better done than Super who also pull the form out of his ass, the only form that was "natural" Was SSJgod which didn't accomplish a single thing, but to be fair neither has SSj 3 who only has 1 WIN in 1 Movie and it also debuted Goku Famous Dragon Punch...but the dragon punch is just an evolution of Goku Oozaru fist that he used to beat king Piccolo in the OG Db series.

We need another season 2 where we get ssj 4 vegeta and now the orginal demon king awaken as they explore the world to to destroy are 3 parts of the true demon king before they all combine like magic Dabura beat his dad by splitting him into 4 parts 1 evil eye and 3 OTHER PART.... BODY, heart, soul

This is just lazy copy and paste, after Beast Gohan this is not moving forward into something unique or special.

Demonic power up? It doesn't look primal... exactly similar to the onee-chan bara franchise.

I still appreciate SS3 Vegeta, while wishing for a different kind of SS transformation. a copy and paste is not cool. Maybe in an alternative universe can we have the creator deliver such a demand unless we time travel to the past

No tails no ssj4 simple as that. Ive been watching since i was a kid and now im 37!Love it🔥

I prefer the story line of gt and how he transforms.. way more epic than daima magic thingy that the nameku did on goku to help him transform..

honestly, if they chalked up gokus red hair in this ssj4 form to magic from Neva and applied that ssj4 gogetas red hair via magic from the fusion dance that would the be perfect tie up that for that loose end

Neva literally did what Guru did to Gohan and Krillin. Neva’s might be a stronger variant of potential unleashing but yea I agree definitely not an ass pull at this point. Pretty understandable compared to ssg and ssb

So many wasted years 90s kids had families this series should happen in 2004 so this year could be season 3-4 of this

Think about how it works and how it looks goku might go beserk and lose control and gain this form

the large hands ruins it a bit for me tho

No use your head guys. Look ssj 4 goku daima looks like ssj god. Remember the image beerus saw about super saiyan god that looked like ssj god with a tail. This is it. Its super saiyan 4 super saiyan god. Its a super saiyan 4 with god ki. Thats why its eyes and hair looks like ssj god goku and vegeta. Imagen a super saiyan 3 with red eyes and red hair as super saiyen god. Now think of it in those theres. That form is a combination of ssj4 and super saiyen god. So this has nothing to do with a new look its just an like a boost combination that woke beerus up. So if ssj 4 is combined with ultra instinct then it will look like ssj5 drawing from af. And if ssj4 combines with ssj blue it will be a ssj4 with blue skin and blue hair.

This form will not have ssj4 gogeta.

GT did it better

That’s the most logical reason for ssj4 Gogeta to have red hair

don't forget saiyan cells will automatically naturally save 🧬⚡ whatever transformation happens to them, natural or unnatural. So Goku keeps ssj4 forever with or without magic use

Theyre both Toriyama 😂 damn this fanbase is dense SSJ4 has been canon since GT Toriyama did help design SSJ4 He gave input Super doesnt come after Daima its different timelines and no way yu think or seem to believe that God forms are stronger the Demon King is stronger than Jiren SSJ4 level is in the millions SS God us only hundreds of thousands on the low end

UPDATE: So in the final episode of Daima, Goku said he “trained a lot” after fighting Buu to achieve Super Saiyan 4. However, while he DID train to get the form, he didn’t believe the form would work implying he couldn’t gain access to it on his own. Neva’s magic still forced a mutation in his Saiyan biology to make SSJ4 a possibility for Goku, and now that he’s unlocked the form officially, it’s possible he can tap into it at any time. Which may be an issue for Super’s continuity but that’s an issue for the future lol.