Elden Ring - The Malenia Conspiracy

I've been calling her a misplaced Sekiro boss (and other things in the same vein) since I fought her less than 2 weeks after Elden Ring came out.

Wouldn't surprise me if they consciously carried some of the themes from Sekiro into her character

My personal headcanon is that Malenia was supposed to be the player character of Elden Ring, and her prosthetic limbs would have similar functions to the shinobi prosthesis from Sekiro. It would explain why she had so much pre-release content focused on her, and I could see the scarlet aeonia potentially functioning as an ultimate move similar to mortal draw. Not that I have literally any evidence for that, but there are a few similarities between Malenia's design and what I would expect from a game that may have started off being more mechanically similar to Sekiro.

I am more than two months late, but Malenia's waterfowl dance is really an "upgraded version" of "Spiral Cloud Passage" and "Floating Passage" which is a technique specifically used by Tomoe, so there are footings to the conspiracy.

Is there anything in the games code that implies that Millicent was ever intended to be or become Malenia at the end of her quest? It always seemed to me that Malenia might have died fighting Radahn (to the rot), but been reborn through Millicent and her sisters, with Millicent being her true inheritor, taking up her armour and sword upon arrival at the base of the Haligtree. Would love a video exploring this (if indeed there is anything to be explored at all)!

Love your content. Thanks Zullie.

To be honest, I don't really see any sekiro connections in the Malenia boss fight, I think this is a classic case of people thinking too much into something and wishing it into existence. To me, she fits the boss design of elden ring perfectly, much more aggressive than previous souls games, long combo chains, and aoe attacks. Most elden ring bosses fit this mould. And that's not even taking into account the actual character design, which would be incredibly out of place in sekiro. Sure, all these things could have been changed if she got moved from sekiro to elden ring during development but then why does it matter at that point, imo she fits perfectly into elden ring and is such a cool (and frustrating) boss.

I am largely thinking it's unused boss assets or DLC assets just because of how perfect of a fight Malenia would be in Sekiro. Waterfowl would be perfect for parrying, her lunge perfect for mikiri, and her side dash sweep attack perfect for jump countering.

It's ridiculous how good your content is. Keep it up.

It would have been cool to also see an in-depth comparison of the Spiral Cloud Passage skill in Sekiro and Malenia’s Waterfowl Dance. They seem pretty similar but I’m wondering if they’re the same thing or not.

I don’t think it’s any proof that Malenia is Tomoe but it would be a pretty interesting thing if it was a deliberate homage or reference between the two games.

Her and Radahn are cut Sekiro bosses from the Sekiro DLC that never came out. They are based on Rei The Waterfowl Fist and Raoh The Conqueror from Fist of the North Star. Much of Sekiro is based on that anime right down to the main character himself being based on Kenshiro, as well as Genichiro Ashina, whose based on Shin. It's literally axiomatic if you've read the manga or seen the 1986 film. Obviously Malenia was originally Tomoe and she had a dragonrot second phase, not a 'scarlett' rot second phase. She has a prosthetic arm like Sekiro and may have had a connection to the sculptor somehow.

Siegmeier trained her

The games don’t repeat, they just rhyme. 😉

Or Seikero is a painted world along with Elden Ring.

she might not be from sekrio but she'd be more fun to fight in it.

She has very short sekiro style parry animations that do nothing. Why?

Yup, playing Sekiro again

I know that Radagon, Ranni, Radhan and Rykard, also Godwyn, Godfrey and Godrick are all George R.R. Martins ideas

Marika, Melania, Miquella, Mohg, Mohgwyn, Morgott are all FromSoftware's contribution

Malenia is a big lady. God damn, seeing her compared to Genichiro puts it into perspective. Sekiro and John Eldenring are both manlets, but Geni absolutely is not.

It’s a bit weird that she’s the face of Elden Ring when she doesn’t even have a face, it’s all been rotted off

Isshin Ashina kinda has one attack that resembles Waterfoul Dance, called One Mind, at least the fast swinging blades (with the white wind effect) is something that both Malenia and Isshin Ashina are doing, Isshin is using that attack frequently when fighting him in the Shura ending, after he lost one of his two "health globes".
Not sure if i'm allowed to link other YT-videos so that i can show exactly which attack skill I mean, so I leave that out for now.
Anyone know which attack I mean?

I dont understand when you say prove a negative. WHat you mean?

Who said she needs to be in DLC? She could be in Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice Twice

Idk why people bring up sekiro all the time when discussing Malenia.

Bloodborne is another beloved one-off FromSoft ip. Lady Maria, anyone?

Dark Souls 3. Sister Friede?

Watch their moves, and you can see the beginnings of Waterfowl Dance. Why does everyone forget about them? Why did no one complain about sister friede being a "bloodborne boss, but you dont have bloodborne tools"?

Malenia is really just the most recent iteration of a boss archetype. And she can be totally curbstomped, if you use the tools Elden Ring gives you.

And now that we have the deflecting tear we know for a fact she was sekiro cut content in one way or another. Tomoe or not, the fact that it works 1:1 as if you were playing sekiro, even doing stance damage when you deflect, opens up an entirely different way of fighting her that was most definitely the original intended way to fight her, the way sekiro would

And now I've remembered there was never any story DLC for Sekiro, and I am a destitute lump of congealed misery.

If I'm going insane I'm glad I'm not doing it alone.

but what about 1.0 malenia? she has a block in that version

A friend always told me that the Demon of Hatred was a Bloodborne boss in the wrong game and I think same still rings true with Malenia.

reminds me of when jerma985 first fought her and he literally called her a sekiro boss

malenia is similar to suzuka gozen who uses a sword just like her

The snake/tree spirit makes me think theres a few employees at fromsoft not attached to any game, Miyazaki just tells them to make really powerful monsters, "we can figure out a spot for them later"

Perhaps just perhaps hear me out maybe malenia has visited the land of reeds

Like 95% of Elden Ring is just references or remakes of previous games; most of the story beats and themes are just DS1's story, so many of the bosses and enemies are just ripped or adapted versions of previous games, each major area has clear inspiration from their previous games.

At this point it's basically impossible to tell what aspects are reused assets and which are just based on their previous work

Regardless of the truth, I choose to believe she'd make a really fun and challenging Sekiro fight.

I think there's one thing that seems similar though. That one flurry of attacks of Genichiro reminds me of a way turned down version of waterfowl. Mainly the last hit they do diagonal upwards to the (same) side gives me that impression. I still don't think that Malenia in that state would have been Tomoe, but it's a sweet thing to imagine

The spiral cloud passage ripoff is a big part of why people think what they think

Im definitely more in the camp the malenia definitely having sekiro inspiration, but not actually being from sekiro. Kinda like how certain enemies will give off ds 1, 2, and 3 vibes. Inspiration rather than recycling in this case. But who knows, something in malenias design could have been carried over too. Though we'll likely never actually know. Still fun to speculate though

What if it's a character who's combat style we never seen but is mentioned in Sekiro? Like for example Sekijo or his former lover/partner?

No one wields katana like Malenia

Y’know this brings up a point I’ve had in my head for a while.

So, I finished Sekiro a few times. Got all the endings. Genichiro is actually my favorite boss to fight, and the one things I kinda notice, however, no matter how different their combinations, have two specific move sets that are strangely similar.
Genichiro’s flurry combo/Melania’s light hand flurry
Genichiro’s jumping attacks/Melania’s lunging and jump attacks.

It could entirely speculative to have the possibility that Lady Tomoe could’ve disappeared under a different moniker to hide from Ashina’s masterful spies and espionage attempts.

On another Note: it was never really stated when Lady Tomoe disappeared, and could’ve left Genichiro to learn the Lightning of Tomoe on his own, battling the lightning in fountainhead palace in place of a missing master.

Entirely speculative

Melania, the Kingfisher

I don't know what but something is special with that video

After using Elden Ring Reforged mod addition "Reeds" fortune to fight her, Malenia is fore sure ment to be fought with Sekiro mechanics. Second last vid on my channel.

Ofc she is tomoe, both of them are skilled swordswomen deemes to be one of, if not the strongest in their respective universes. And both of them serves as guard of a wise and ultra intelligent fem boy kid.

i remember isshin said Tomoe fought like as if she danced (her sakura sance) which reminds of malenia waterflow dance

Elden ring video with breath of the wild music, this is the best 😩😩😩

I suggest that you could check and see similarities between okami warriors and malenia, more than genichiro. Okami are powerful women warrirors, and katana ones have a very similar attack to the infamous waterfowl dance.(hence the name, there are many lotus pools with white lotus flowers where ducks and fowls would live in irl.)

The area itself is flooded just like the boss area. But again, them having different fighting styles, using bows and etc. resembles the mixed fighting style of Genichiro. Another connection is the helm of Malenia which is a direct Bereserk reference and the helmet being depicted as ''valkyrie helmet'' also refers to sole women warriros of Okami.

These similarities can be realized in maybe other aspects of every each and other game and I think this is an intention for us realizing them and making connections every time so that we continue to live and remember the story.

Female samurai? Lmao what??? Women can't fight what is that slop history

It could still be up in the air as Isshin did say watching Timor fight is like a dance or something along those lines and malenia does move in that manner

Don’t you dare go hollow

Because Elden Ring released after Sekiro, it's easy to think about anything from Sekiro being rolled forward into Elden Ring. However, the development of both games actually overlapped, and they've said in interviews that Sekiro didn't necessarily have an opportunity to strongly affect Elden Ring, as Sekiro concluded when Elden Ring was already well on its way. The potential for a complete, or nearly complete Tomoe concept to get started on for DLC, get scrapped, and then get featured in Elden Ring as Malenia doesn't seem to fit cleanly in the development timeline. So, even if there may be some Sekiro DNA in her design, the idea at least that Malenia is "just Tomoe" or even really represents what a Tomoe fight would've been like feels unlikely.