How Foiling Destroys Windsurfing!

I dont windfoil, but have been kitefoiling for 10 + years, and I experience the same things with kitefoiling. I sticked to full carbon race kitefoils from the beginning, I wondered how the Industry sold bad freeride kitefoils 🎉❤

Windsurfing customers being used as beta-testers at premium prices is unfortunately not new. :(
I went through the same cycle buying all these dodgy foils. I had some fun with the Horue vini and a Horue tiny board combo, and later on with a moses foil those were ok but also broke.
As I'm an engineer with composite experience, I started to build my own masts due to the crappy foils.
3 Years ago my 115cm long homebrew carbon mast with carbon fuse was stiffer compared to all those masts of professional foil brands on the beach, only F4 was on the same level.

After a while I switched to winging and I didn't have time anymore for foil building. First I bought a F4 full carbon freerace foil, which was terrible quality and finish, and then I just bought GONG as I was so tired of all the windsurfing brands.

Right now I'm still riding the Gong gear, where I bought a lot over the last few years. For (free)racing currently I use the HM107 mast with Pulse DP Aramid wing and a 590 + 810 frontwing.
I can go over 50kmh with this on my local lake, fully locked in the harness on small light gear. It's awesome and at a much better price-quality ratio as well.

For me the brands where I would still buy a foil are: Gong, Levitaz, Chubanga, Mikeslab and maybe Patrick.

Honest reviews like in a car magazine. Like this sail is good but the materials are less durable. It can be overwhelmingly complicated for people who just start windsurfing and look for new equipment. No adverts but straight reviews. Good video and great topic 👍

I totally agree with you, Mario. I have encountered the same problems, spent money, and been disappointed. Recently I switched to a racing foil and I found it much easier. I have some issues because my board and foil come from different sale marques (eg, JP board with RRD foil) and I am not willing to spend more money to buy more equipment. What you mentioned is absolutely true and I thank you very much for this video.

Great video. Very insightful. So many good points you make. Windsurfing foiling missed the boat because of all the things you say. I loved Windsurfing but Windsurfing foiling didn't look good.
Wing foiling got there stuff sorted quicker and took the market.
Wing Foiling is easier to get good at from the start.
The Windsurfing foiling gear might finally be good now but a wingfoiler isn't going to change to a Windsurfing foiling.
Nobody new to the sport decides to become a Windsurfing foiler. With Wing Foiling many people from other water disciplines, through to no sailing experience are taking it up . More importantly the ones that take it up stick with it and love it.
Unfortunately Windsurfing foiling now is only a niche market.
Great work on your presentation.
Sucked in to the Windsurfing companies. I love wing foiling the majority of the days but when I go Windsurfing that is still super fun as well.
Enjoy.

Gute beschrieben. Wir benötigen ausrüstung, mit der man regelmäßig auf den See kann. Speziell Leipzig und Umgebung

I have been wind, kite and wave surfer for over 30 years
Foil surfing is complete bullshit.
It does work in a weak wind, but it's definitely not surfing.
A stupid trend that is only good for getting money out of customers.
If you want to surf and really feel the sea - just get a surfboard

Exakt die gleichen Erfahrungen, angefangen mit dem pink NP, dann NP F4 evo, dann Moses Racefoil und seit 2 Jahren auf dem NP SLR, was zumindest damals zu den besten gezählt hat. Bis man verstanden hat, dass man foilsegel und foilbrett mit Foil nur zusammen funktioniert, hat auch lange gedauert. Gerne mal auf meinen Kanal gehen, da sieht man gut die Steps, zum windfoilen

Have an “old” fanatic h9 foil which is truly terrible. What foil would you recommend for riding the least wind possible with the smallest sail possible? I don’t really care about speed…. (I have a 98l foil board so I can’t really use sails bigger than my 5.6)

Hi Mario,
Du triffst es sehr gut. In den ersten Jahren war es deutlich merkbar, daß Windfoil Material mehr ein Try and Error der Hersteller war. Unabhängig vom Gewicht des Surfers oder der Brettgröße sollte ein Foil für alle passen. 🤬
Jegliche Informationen, selbst Fahrtechnik, war irgendwie nicht erhältlich. Ich selbst habe mir viel über YT zusammen reimen müssen.
Für mich selbst wird Windsurfen immer die Nummer 1 sein, aber eben bei wenig Wind ist Foil eine Alternative. Ich muß nicht mehr racen 😇😂, aber ich möchte eben auch bei wenig Wind Spaß haben ohne riesiges Material.
Aber ohne die Promotion durch Hersteller, z.B. durch Trainingswochen, wird auch Foil sterben, da der zusätzliche monetäre Aufwand von den meisten eher gemieden wird. Zumal erst kaufen und dann lernen eher zu Fehlentscheidungen führt.

Aber warum bietest Du nicht mal ein derartiges Camp an? Denn wer foilen gelernt hat, wird dann sicher auch kaufen. 😉😇😂

Ey Kollege, die deutschen haben dich groß gemacht, dein Zeug gekauft und jetzt? Wie verstehen wir dich?

Outsider here. Can someone boil-down what the issue is being talked about in the video and the comments?

A very interesting video Mario which makes many intelligent and valid points about the windfoiling journey that many of us mortals have taken and the direction the Windsurfing industry is going
I started 3 years ago on a Fanatic Falcon Lightwind 159 with a Starboard GTR Foil and Duotone S and E Types. I’ve found the GTR to be a great first foil. No complaints about the quality and the board was quoted as ‘Foil Ready’ and found it to be a great board to learn on with no defects developing in the foil box.
It’s been a slow but enjoyable learning curve but there are very few sailors at our lake that have decided to go down the windfoiling route but there is now a very healthy & enthusiastic winging community and sadly a rapidly declining windsurfing community

Im still amazed that it's taken so long for this sport to take off.
It's actually been around since the eighties.

I have waited 5 years to buy a foil for sport to get developed by the brands now after 4 year buying beginner NP foil with a JP freeride foil I recognise none of my sessions are a like, each time I have a different feeling on the ride, sometimes stiffer sometimes wobbly, etc etc. I do not know if this is a production issue but again I have never struggled with an equipment before like this and each time you think the problem is you. Thanks a lot for making this video, I hope the media also take this serious issue into consideration for the next generation of windsurfers/foilers. Keep up the great work 🏆

Good video! So It depends where we live, where we surf, what type of winds we have......if one lives in hawaiii or aruba etc would never turn to wing seriously: fin windsurfing is for real strong characters. Foiling is something else :a part time .....something. not hard

25yo Calssic Windsurfer since 13 Years. I've never tried Foiling. I kinda want to just for fun, but i can never imagine that it would make more fun than Windsurfing. Second thing is that i was student till last year and these foils are freaky expensive. Maybe thats also a reason why i never tried it. I mean you can find a 2. hand gear for windsurfing(in good condition) for 300-500€. Thats also a big point.
Greetings from switzerland

It as basically to do with the fun of the sport, foiling is complicated and expensive, it added more cost and less pleasure, more physical demand, more injuries, more frustration, together with the new sports that emerged made a lot of people move away from the sport.

Thank you Mario for a well deserved critique of how the windsurfing manufacturers adopted a fast-fashion windsurfing business model, which is really sad for a sport which prides itself in being  "planet friendly" or a "lifestyle" vs just another water sport.
After windsurfing for 30yrs on a Mistral Malibu long fun board (as they were called at the time), I switched to "modern" boards and promptly buckled 1 Starboard then cracked its Starboard replacement then cracked its Fanatic replacement in 2 years (never happened in 25yrs of Mistral).
As the owner of 2 foiling boards (i.e. with a foil bix):
- (poor) Fanatic Blast foiling board with (poorer) Slingshot Hover ride, which I sold,
- then BIC Techno WindFoil (very good at finning and good at foiling) and (good) F4 foil,
I have to agree with your criticism Mario, but I am not a pro, and I am an unashamed 80/20 finning/foiling windsurfer.
As the repurposed joke goes "Foiling is fine, finning is fantastic".

Enjoying your time on the water with whatever gear you can afford, and learning how to optimize it by rigging it correctly, which is an art, to reach any planing speed or flying altitude is happiness.

My mantra is:
"Go where the wind is, bring whatever (quality vs latest fast-fashion) gear you have, and (you will) be happy 🤙".

Windsurfing is dead, almost no younger people gets involved. And foiling is a disaster, just for very few people. An era is gone.

Same early to market limitations with cycle equipment too....costly to be pioneering. 😊

The brands do not selling the products.
they are selling a dreams :)

Foil means more surffun in less wind.

Destroying windsurfing?! I just came from three hours session from seaside heights in nj . I drove for two hours from south Brooklyn. Love every minute of it have no intention ever switching to any other water sport.

I’m 60. The first thing I ever bought at the age of 13 with my own money was a 1 could’ve been 12‘ Dufour Wing. Me and my best friend learned to windsurf that summer.

god this is absolutely nonsense what you are saying . people like to try different things. in the end of a day everything is about ENJOYMENT. And all brands get adapted based on demand needs. now if your concern is the one day you will not be able to windsurf, buy a good stack of windsurf supplies to ensure that you will be windsurfing for the rest of your life

Trying stuff before buying it. This is by far the most important thing IMHO. 

How many times have you spend a lot of money on something and then realise it wasn't what you expected?

Every windsurfer I've ever met is super jealous of the hype that kitesurfing gets... I think it also makes them angry when I boost over them ;)

Well said. It’s the reason I have stayed fin only. I want to have consistent fun

I waited until 2019 to try foiling on holiday and got flying 5 mins …. Eventually after a year I bought a naish hover and Nash ws foil …so ..a package zero regrets and to date no equipment issue….i might be one of those rare free riders you mention as I know my foil is not fast 24 knots is fastest it’s been it’s the light wind windsurfing on a gusty lake that i wanted the foil for. Great video it helps the brands as they probably don’t get all the feedback so might not be aware. Feedback I would also give is keep it simple and have common standards where possible.

Windsurf is basically backpaking sailing, you can do coastal cruising with windsurf board and waterproof bag, however as "sport" is totally wrong because the speeds they take sailing near the coast where people swim or freedive, so it rather should be ilegal as jet skis or any boat with propeller

crazy about foils. 🤔 anyway i dont like this "windsurfing" , foiling is not real windsurfing at all as for me... and for many others. TRUE windsurfing is only with fins!!!

Frag doch mal dein Kumpel Nico Prien... er hat doch ein Foil. hab video gesehen... 😄 was sagt er, vorher hat er ein Pro ding.🤔 oder hat selber gebaut, wie der letzte Board aus dem Holz 🤔

seit über 40 jahren windsurfer, seit 5 jahren windfoilen mit slingshot matos....ganz egal ob windsurfen/foilen ausstirbt und ich der einzige auf dem wasser bin...mir machts tierisch spass und das ist das wichtigste.
nebenbei gibts soviel letztjähriges oder gebrauchtes material um auch die kosten übersichtlich zu halten... wer nicht 2 linke hände hat kann das meiste selber reparieren und somit seinem matos zu langer lebenszeit verhelfen.

Thank you very much for the Video! I knew the most Videos from you. But This is One from the best! Greetings from Hannover. 👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍

Come on. Windsurf foiling will never replace windsurfing in waves. It's just for slalom or speed and I personally feel that soooo boring. I do go Wing foiling when there are no big waves or I even pass to the dark side and go Kitesurfing.

Kids of today like "easy wins"... From the perspective of the guys from the '60s to '70s, this looks like having sex with an inflatable doll. 😂😂😂😂

I started wind foiling with an f4 foil and just like you I had the mast explode at the fuselage and shear the foil off. At that point I just started winging and the new downwind boards and high aspect foils from axis have been great. In light wind I really enjoy sailing my 40 year old mistral superlight, it rails well upwind and planes nicely and the upwind angles are excellent so I can explore the whole bay, not just reach back and forth. On a windy day I definitely prefer the fin on a slalom board.

consumer victim🤗

only racing gear for foiling. 😊

I also had bad experience with my first and second foils Firat was a Fanatic not well developed (first generation with aluminium mast and composite fuselage) very bad in control and not control. Than I tried with a Gaastra that was a prototype of the SabFoil I bought as last. And this works quite well but still needs good skills in control when the wind is raffy

I've totally given up on windsurf foiling. I've been a wave sailor for years, I know what I'm doing and I've been out in some truly wild wind and waves. Unfortunately I moved to a place with light winds (usually 25 knots or less) and just chop, no waves. I made the mistake of taking the advice of my windsurf shop when buying the windsurf foil and board - trying to use my existing wave sails, booms and masts to save a bit of money.

I'm around 90 kg and pretty strong, and it took a while to realise they sold me a foil (Starboard Freeride) that was way too small. It's useless in < 18 knots of wind. It's a nightmare trying to go downwind in > 25 knots. Sure, I was still learning the foil, but this thing sucks in ways fin windsurfing just doesn't.

I looked into getting new wings for the foil but Starboard has totally abandoned it's customers! They changed their foils and mine is now totally obsolete/incompatible and there aren't any other wings available; there never were! All of their foils used different mounts, so you're stuck with one wing. I spent a lot of money on this and it's 100% useless to me now. I will never buy anything from Starboard ever again. I'm also done with my local shop. The board sucks too, it's twice the weight of other boards.

I wish I never bothered with windsurf foiling. I quit and got into wing foiling this year, using that awful 125L Starboard board as a learner board. It's been great! My new Fanatic foil has a bunch of wing/mast/fuse options and is compatible with Duotone. The sport takes a lot of balance, but there's no risk of catapults and I can easily get on the foil even in light winds.

I still love wave sailing but I think I'm done with that windsurf foiling. It's just too expensive and frustrating. Sure, it's the fastest thing on the water, but I don't care about that.

Great sharing of learning and experience!

My experience: In my hometown light winds are prevailing. I have Patrick slalom windsurf board which bought for 1800 euro back in 2021, it is foil ready, Windsurfed it 3 years, and because I am stingy guy bought 400 euro Gong Foil, just replaced its frond wing with 1500 better series font wing. What I can say is that combination is just perfect, I cruise normally with 6.7 sail, it was 9.00(when used same board with fin) I just feel super comfortable with foot on straps hooked on harness and when wind is steady 14-15 knots comfort is unique. I feel like I am in my sofa at home with beer in hand.
Soo- 2.40meters long board is not a problem at all for entering in the foiling , 400 euro GONG foil flies just fine and can be used also as entry for winging. I am sure dedicated windsurfing board is better, but also foils ready windsurf boards are excellent solution, so not to spend 1000 and plus euro for dedicated board, at least at the beginning.
Most guys just want to try foiling, like me. I just tried, loved it and now I only foil. Haven't used fins since 5 months. Also on annual basis I normaly do 20-23 sessions yearly. This year because of foil they are 33 sessions already saved in my watch - pretty good year for me! 
So my advice for those with foil ready boards- Just buy cheap foil and try, if you love it, stay with it, if you do not - find someone to sell back cheap foil, and keep up with fin

No wind do something else. Ride a bike.

Hallo Mario,
das Thema "nicht funktionierendes Surfequipment" zieht sich durch die Windsurfgeschichte wie ein roter Faden. In den ca. 40 Jahren die ich windsurfe war es immer so, daß unglaublich viel Schrott verkauft wurde, nur das es noch nie so teuer war wie heute.
Ich selbst habe jetzt zum Foilen ein altes Starboard iSonic 150 mit hochwertiger Flikka Deep Tuttle Foilbox. Dazu benutze ich einen Sabfoil Moses Mast 105W, ein Frontwing W800 und ein Backwing 399 mit einer 115 cm Fuselage.
Das ganze funktioniert super, wenn ich auch einfach echt lange brauche um zu lernen. Aber ich kann entspannt im Trapez cruisen.
All das Zeug habe ich gebraucht gekauft und lange gesucht, bis ich das gefunden hatte, was ich haben wollte. Auf dem Weg dahin waren viele Fehlkäufe und es gibt tatsächlich niemanden, der mir eine für mich stimmende Kaufempfehlung geben konnte. Es ist trial and error.
Am Plöner See gibt es von Jahr zu Jahr weniger Windsurfer, einschließlich der Wingfoiler. Der Sport ist teuer, zeitaufwendig und wenn's nicht klappt frustrierend. Wie soll ein Einsteiger das alles durchblicken und mit Spaß dabei bleiben?
Weniger Aktive bedeutet auch höhere Preise und schlechtere Produktqualität des Equipments.
Der Windsurfsport ist in schwierigem Fahrwasser und es bleibt spannend was die Zukunft bringt. Vielleicht bleibt am Ende nur das Kiten übrig?!

Fin for the win, windsurfing is still the one

I dont get the premise: i'm a pro but its only about the fun. 😂 and plz understand: the companies which sell the stuff want to earn money. They dont care about the fun. This behaviour you complain about is just an easy way to milk the customer. Sorry bro

my parents were windsurfers when I was 10 and lived on the water but I never got the chance. Now I’m 48 and learning myself, and it’s disheartening to see the sport is basically nonexistent here, because it’s blurred into kitesurfing, foiling, all this other advanced niche stuff that’s neat I guess, but pretty intimidating & prohibitive from a beginners standpoint. I bounce the sport off my students (university) and I get blank looks & they go back to discussing video games. All our physical shops are gone, so there’s no presence. Weird to see the collapse of such a huge sport just a couple decades ago.