RV DEALER DEFRAUDING CUSTOMERS? General RV Investigated

This situation with General RV is probably related to a rogue employee I would hope. Thomyt

Good video. I have watched a few videos on this General RV issue. Do not understand how it makes sense. If the 240 payments did not add up on the paperwork, how would it be signed by a customer. The monthly payment would be different between 240 and 119 with a balloon payment. Maybe this is a specific issue with a rogue dealer. Agree contracts must be read fully. I have never financed an RV, always purchased outright.
My own opinion, RVs should not be more than 10 years for amortization. Safe travels.

This fits with my experiences with their Service department. That said my "service advisor" and sales person were both friendly and helpful, good people I think. I'm sure many good people work there. That all said I find it disturbing that they came out and said no one at General RV broke the law! They don't know that, or perhaps they don't think this was wrong. An honest family business or any business, should say something like: We take this matter seriously and are cooperating fully with the investigation. Blaming their customers.

You can now finance a car for 6 or 7 years. I won't finance a car for more than 4 years let alone an RV. People do not even stay married for 5 years. I should be in debt longer than most marriages last for some object that looses value the moment you drive it off the lot is nuts!

Norm such a very important topic. Thank you. Such wise advice that way too many people need to hear.

I'm not sure I have the expertise to say what is the best terms for a loan. I financed my RV through my local bank for 5 years. Before I purchased, I figured out what I could afford and then looked for an RV in that range. Yes, monthly payments were important but did not want to go over a 5-year term. I knew that I could not afford a brand new RV so started looking at the used market and found a 1997 Class A with only 18K miles on it.

I smell a Dirty Rat

This is why we bought used for cash... :) Pure and simple!

The documents appear to clearly show some deception, at least in my opinion. As far as a 20 year loan, It’s not a wise decision, but I understand why some people do it. I do know that 15 year loans are abundant out the, and I personally think that’s acceptable for many people. I’ve been looking to buy a new truck, and it looks like the cost of these are in the 60k area. People finance expensive vehicles like this for 7-8 years, so it’s not unreasonable to figure people are going to finance an RV that costs two to three times the amount for 15-20 years. No, it’s not good money management, but an RV is a splurge for anyone, with the exception of maybe full-timers. Just my opinion. If General is found guilty of fraud, I hope it’s just one rouge player and not the company. Do we know if the same employee wrote the questionable contracts?

Norm, I don't buy anything on credit which is why I rent rather than own a home. If I don't have enough $$ to buy something without leaving myself broke, I go without. It took me most of my life to learn this very simple lesson and several bankruptcies. I do not yet own an RV, am building up my savings to purchase one, but I also have no debt, so building savings isn't difficult. When the time comes to pull the trigger on an RV, I will be paying cash...

At first I thought this was a 'bad actor' scenario but since General RV came out insisting overwriting paperwork after the fact was standard practice I consider it FRAUD. I feel sorry for the honest people that work there -- unfortunately their corporate has decided to encourage deceptive practices.

Thank you sharing this Norm!

No, don’t finance more than 10years. RVs depreciate sooo fast. Like you said if you can’t afford that RV to be paid off within a short amount of time, lower your expectations. If you can’t afford a higher payment you can’t afford the RV. I know a lot of people have gotten away from paying cash and it’s a shame more parents don’t teach their children sound financial management. Thanks for informing the public, happy trails.

We almost brought from General RV in Ocala, Florida. They would not make us a deal on a Class C even with a loan from our bank plus our travel trailer as a trade in. Now that I have heard all this I am glad we did not deal with them. Just keep on camping in our travel trailer.
Thanks for the information.

I think as consumers we really need to look at what we truly can afford. The sales person has a product to sell but they don't have to make the payments and have the debt hanging over them. We purchased our fifth wheel last year but went with a loan from our credit union that has much better terms.

Great job Norm , people have to read and question contracts before they sign and reps need to explain to the borrowers what they are offering and how

I bought a Truck Camper brand new 2 years ago...The dealership was upset with me that I would not finance with there lenders. I went to my bank because I wanted to trust my lender and have been with my bank 12 years. I live in mine full time and got my terms at 7 years. 20 years is scary on anything

Thanks for sharing this. I happened to be in a Camping World 3 weeks ago shopping around. When I saw a unit I of course asked the price and he quoted it. I ask about cash and was told "Cash used to be king, but not any more" I was told I was better off financing and if I wanted to pay it off, wait 90 days or so then pay it off. My gut told my feet run don't walk. The only possible thing I can think of is the dealer was going to get a finders fee or kick back, call it what you may from the lender, once they received that then they didn't care.If anyone has a idea why cash doesn't work anymore, please share.

We bought our first TT from them in 2012 and had a great experience! We recently went to look at a specific fifth wheel and when I mentioned that we would be paying cash, they acted like they didn't need our business! So be it!

Thank you so much Norm and Kim for working to bring this type of transaction do's and Don'ts to your subscribers attention. This does though bring the " Used Car Grifter Salesman " to the forefront with the RV Retail Community at large when this type of practice is FOSTERED by General RV. bill in Florida

I would guess that 90 percent of new RV loans are amortized over 20 years. When getting any loan, you need the run the numbers yourself on a financial calculator or one of the many apps that are designed for checking loan math. Never trust the RV dealership, you need to do your own research on the RV and especially on the loan. Shop around before signing loan paperwork, read all of the 50 pages and if you dont understand it, dont sign. General RV was at fault here but the buyer should beware, and just expect the they are going to try to screw you. It like driving defensively, everyone is trying to crash into you. Larry

We paid cash on a used RV from Facebook. Found a great deal. You will get a better deal by buying from a private seller. The RV lots are way too expensive.

Common sense tells ME that 20 years on an RV loan is not good financial practice. We financed our new RV on a 5 year loan and paid it off in 6 months. That, in my mind is freedom!

It's no different the buying a automobile on a seven year plus note. Bad financial decision!

Great information, Norm. It's a shame that the acts of a few bad apples are tarnishing the reputation of General RV. This is a good reminder to all of us to ensure we read and understand anything before signing it, no matter how excited we are to get our "new toy"! And yes, financing anything with wheels for 20 years is not a smart money move, with depreciation on RVs being the way it is, financing for 20 years is almost as financially savvy as making minimum monthly payments on your CC bill!

I bought a house that was on a 15 year contracto that had a balloon payment due after five years as it was explained to me it really wasn’t a balloon payment it was simply a refinance after each five year period And as long as I kept the payments up on time and kept my credit score at or above where it was there wouldn’t be an issue refinancing that’s exactly how it ended up as a matter of fact the last two five-year. I got a better interest rate than the first five year.

I think for people the do not necessarily have to finance should look to see if the finance charge is greater than what your money makes in the bank. If the bank is paying you more in interest leave the money there if it is less then than the loan then take the loan. We need to be wise with our money and let it grow when we can. this is one of my setbacks on buying an RV. I want the best deal I can get and that does not necessarily mean paying cash for the RV.

Great info Norm. Buyer beware. One other question though.....how’s Kim? Missed her smiling face in this video. 😁

Lots of folks are coming forward with the same fraud at General RV. Greed has taken down great Empires...this place is no different. Actually it is REALLY STUPID that they did it for so long and to so many people. FYI- 20 year loans are common. Do I think it is wise...NO

Great information.
I do agree that 20 years is a bad idea. However I'm on the fence on weather this is the customer's fault. If The payments were 210 when they signed it, and then added afterwards. That's no bueno.

Al so, it's my experience when a company says that it's not their fault without giving a explanation. My nephews do that, I didn't do it.

Are there any new cases, same old story

Why only five cases

It's not a practice it happened 5 times

We drove out of state for our RV took a 4-year loan with hopes of the payoff of two

What a shame👎

I enjoy watching Matt’s rv reviews but I think I now will stop.

The woman on the news story didn't sign "what she THOUGHT was a 20 year loan" - she actually signed what she did agree to. It was AFTER THE FACT that fraud was committed and the original, legally signed contract was tampered with and the terms were changed.

The lesson is, look at the copy that is mailed from the financial institution and compare to your signed original.

Also, people get terms that they are comfortable with. Lecturing people on their personal choices might be well intentioned but it is their business. We signed a 15 year because we wanted the longer term so we can double payments when we choose. We are paying it off in 5 years and have no intention of giving away all that cash to paying interest!

That said, I really hope the fraudster is caught and punished and that the original contracts are honored as they should be.

It be is never a good idea to take out a long- term loan for an RV. They depreciate VERY quickly. So like you said, Norm, re-evaluate your purchase to fit your budget- like buying a 2 or 3 year old model to make the payments lower. NEEDS vs. WANTS.

This is straight up dealer fraud. I've been following this ever since it aired on the news. So many people came forward with the same "smudge", but customers' copies didn't have the smudge.

1 question on this topic though : were the "smudges" on the paperwork only found in the Utah GENERAL RV dealership or were dealerships from all over the country found with similar "mistakes" as more ppl. came forward ? As that was not very clear for me ...

Simple aritmetic, not that confusing.

how convenient that they can foist the blame on the inscrutable "rogue employee". this way they can extricate themselves clean as a whistle and smelling like roses.

It's not that it happened, it's how they are reacting to it. Seeing how general RV is not accepting any blame I would not buy an RV from them.

Hey newbie here!! great information!! Its really sad that people are being taken advantage of...gosh! Just my personal opinion; if you can't afford it & you had to do a long term, you don't need it..BUT.. if you have the money, can afford it, thats awesome!! Happy trails!
I would never buy from crooks regardless if its a family owned business or not. Shame on them! Please someone do an update on this. Thanks!!

This upset me so much because anyone who’s worked with carbon copied knows these are NOT smudges but are over typing someone did. Someone over typed over the original figures on the top row and then added figures to the second line and that seems very clear.

General RV has incriminated itself. I am wondering what the top copy showed and General RV needs to disclose that. Never, ever deal with somebody that will do something like this. General RV if it doesn't clamp down on this dealership then It shows that fraudulent business practices will be tolerated. The problem is not that it was a balloon payment, it was that the customer did not know it was a balloon payment, not that it was 20 years, 10 years, or even 1 year. It was the fraud of telling the customer he was getting 240 payments and bait and switch 119+1 with a balloon payment. The state should throw the book at the company and the dealership and if it doesn't it just shows how much the lobbyists in the state have the state government in their pocket.

I'm from Utah also, and I'm also going through a similar situation with bish rv. On my purchase, I'm looking along with the bank at the financial figures not adding up.

If you think General RV was bad before, are you aware that General RV is significantly raising prices on SOLD coaches ordered months ago that had deposits and contracts on them that are now being delivered?

I and many others have just been told by General RV that they want an additional $18,000 on a Coachmen Beyond that was ordered with a contract and a deposit months ago. Worse yet, if you cancel because of the General RV price increase (which is substantially more than the actual Coachmen price increase) they do not offer to return the deposit.

The saleswoman said that they will just sell the coach I ordered that will soon be arriving to someone else, even though I had a fixed price and put thousands of dollars on deposit with them. The new customer, she said, will be happy to pay a premium to avoid waiting.

This is impacting all General RV customers who bought RV's months ago from them and expect delivery in the near future.

you cant get blood from a turnip. 20 years too long, but one point, the money you are paying for at 20 years is far less depreciated than when you started. Make it a business deduction. Primary residence its a tax write off.

I am so lucky my dad taught me, early on when I was a High School teen what you go into debt for in life. He said there are only two things you finance - a primary residence for 30 years (Max) and under a few circumstances a business loan. He said EVERYTHING else in life is cash. Cars, school and toys are ALL save until you can buy items. I have lived this, am 57 years old have a paid off house wonderful cars all cash, no credit card debt no financial issues (even through thin times). Guess what I taught each of my 4 kids?