Mouthpiece Musings E02 - What we all believe about Vincent Bach trumpet mouthpieces

Thanks for this very informative video. Years ago, I attended an event where I had the opportunity to sit next to a professional trumpet player to play various pieces of music.(I am an amateur player.) This professional player told me the mouthpiece I was playing on was a student mouthpiece, I was playing on a Bach 7c, which I thought produced a good sound. This sent me on a MP safari. I tried a Bach 3c and a 11/2c, but these MPs did not produce as good a sound as the 7c. I now play on a Marcinkiewicz 2s and a 5s, and occasionally still go back to my trusty 7c. I think your video should be made compulsory viewing for everybody commentating on the Trumpet Herald!

If I'm willing to go outside the Bach ecosystem, what would be a mouthpiece brand and size with a better rim comparable to a 10.5 C that would produce the Bach sound but with reduced lip intrusion? I just played an Easter service on a 3C because the organist wanted that sound and boy was it a challenge for the chops!

Didn't Bud Herseth play on a 7C? Personally I have been on a safari lately and discovered the joys of a Bach 6C. I also liked the Curry 7 rim which is quiet comfortable. Interestingly the Bach 6 rim is a lot different to the Bach 6C rim, much flatter. Feels like a different mouthpiece. Ultimately I discovered that I can play smaller mouthpieces without an significant loss of tone. Years of 3C brainwashing made me too scared to try anything smaller. The 6C has a very similar rim to the 3C.

I know someone who was studying trumpet at university. His teacher told him to get a 1 1/2C so he went and bought one. Three months later he realised it was a 10 1/2C but he was scared to tell his teacher. He did three years of study on it and the teacher never noticed or said anything.

I totally agree with your idea about Bach. Their "C cup" line is a caos and lot of them unplayable.... That's the reason why I moved to other brands many years ago. I've never played on Warburton cups but If you want to try something cool I recommend Stork mpc!! Actually I'm playing on a 5D (Vacchiano line). This mouthpieces are amazing!
Another interesting mpc is the Yamaha Vizzutti model. It seems to be a great match with Tce techinque.
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It's always interesting seeing your videos.
Lorenzo from Italy

When you are comparing these Bach mouthpieces, which era of Bach manufacturing are you referring to? That is to say, is every Bach 3c or 10 1/2c the same? 😂

I once did an experiment and tried out several different mouthpieces that I had in my collection without looking at what they were. To my surprise I picked the Bach 10 1/2c as the easiest mouthpiece to play with the best sound! It is far more middle of the road than people think, very versatile.

I am shocked..

So 2.5-2-3/4c and 7 cups are biggest🤔

I both Bach Artisan 1C and its feel suprisenly small 🤔feels like schilke 14-14c2

Bachs bite too hard for me. Used them for recades. Got a ACB TA1 last year and am liking it lots. First piece I can get pedals with. Flexibility is way better.

All these differences are so small and yet for us players, they feel huge. I struggled a lot with high notes, endurance and painful lips until I found the 2C and here I get an idea why. But it's not popular . I notice too that my impression that the 3C is better for a Es Instrument, can be defended. Wonderful work here...

Allen Vizzutti did ALL his work at Eastmen on a Schilke 14A4C

Now it makes sense; when I was younger I had trouble with my low register and was switched to larger Bachs…but not much changed.

I ended up in the 6 series and grew to like it. I tried a 10.5c for a few months and it wasn’t too bad. Thanks for sharing this!

Amazing video! Very informative. Just coming back from a 10 year break (played for 30+ years in my youth) and you’ve demonstrated that every teacher and PhD trumpet professor who told me to go 7C, 5C, 3C didn’t know any better. Not to mention the inconsistent manufacturing. 🙄Ha! Thank you!

I play a Bach 3 F large letter series purchased in 2002 and I find it is most easy to control intonation. It also required I approach playing/ practicing in 15-20 minute intervals for quite a while with equal amount of resting. Over time I am able to spend a solid hour of playing or practicing without resting at this point.

When I want a softer attack or
Even get tired I can switch successfully to a Bach 3E or Bach 1E large letter both purchased in 2002 also.

Later models are smaller cups and or diameters with small letters and do not facilitate for me a successful experience.

Very good video. The author may stop apologizing for time taken or repetitive arguments. It’s kind of an informal class, not a lecture. Keep on bringing this kind of videos and stop saying sorry.. people like me who appreciate this wisdom will invest our time to learn from good sources.

Wow, I've just put a Bach 2C and a Monette B2MS3 in the program ... they are very close ! I know where my money is going :D

Thank you, My band teacher, 40 years ago, had me get a Bach 5c.

OMG!!!! get to the point

Interesting. I recently conducted my first musical and one of the trumpet players donated me a cheap trumpet with 7C mouthpiece. Playing for last month, my first brass instrument, in love with the trumpet. While I'm playing all styles my end goal is to get jazz going with a sweet soft tone a la Miles Davis. At the moment ive worked my range up to C6 but the lowest notes are especially poor and inconsistent. Although at this early stage i expect my technique is the bigger issue vs mouth piece

One of my teachers was a principle player in a big symphony orchestre and he used an A8 mouthpiece with a broad rim and he had a great full round and deep tone.
I am an amateur trumpeter and played for 10 years on a 1 and a half Bach mouthpiece. Later a "specialist" advised me to swith over to a 1 and a quarter mp from Bruno Tilz.
A great mp (very big) that gave me an even larger and clearer tone but not for long. Very soon my embouchure would collapse.
Anyway, many people say that the tone, your sound is in the player and not in the instrument nor in the mouthpiece. This is even so with the flute.
Last years Im switching sometimes between a 7C and a 5B from Bach . The 5B gives me a better bigger tone, but the 7C is easier, more compact and smaller in sound.
You cannot buy and try all the other mps that exist. But I wonder what would be better for me as a non professional player. I love a big dark tone. A V shaped mp ??

Great video. It is PURE MYTH that a "larger" mouthpiece is the only approach to getting a solid, fat tone. I have played a Bach 1.5C Megatone for decades and just left my 7C sitting in my case. I recently decided to try the 7C on a whim and was utterly shocked. Everything was more comfortable and my range and endurance improved with zero sacrifice in tone quality. Also, my lip slurring overall flexibility was instantly better as well. I now believe I had been playing and practicing on a mouthpiece of incorrect size for my lips. All this conventional wisdom needs to be challenged.

Though I agree that trumpet mouthpiece lore is rife with conspiracy theory kind of argument, I don't get much academic argumentation (measurements of actual playing in relation to the mouthpiece, experiments) here either. (10 minutes in, skimming to the rest).

Mouthpiece comparator to the rescue!!

Thanks for your videos. Need your advice. I am a professional trombonist and would also like to play the trumpet.
Please advise what size to choose for a beginner adult? I've heard that the best place to start as an adult is Bach 3C. You recommend Bach 10 1/2C instead of 3C. There are also tips to start with 7C, 5C or 3C, depending on what is more convenient. Some people believe that the trombonist is best suited for large trumpet mouthpieces - Bach 1 or Schilke 24. Which tips are correct? Your opinion.

I've been looking at the Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator for a few years now and when you look at the Bach cups there is no logic to it, each number has its own cup depth and internal shape but to make matters even crazier the rims just change across the range. I don't use Schilke mouthpieces but there is a system in place, size of I.D. depth of cup and 4 standard rims A, B, C, D. now that makes a lot of sense in terms of choosing something to suit your expected needs.

If we are saying that all VB mouthpieces "basically sound the same" because our lip intrusion adapts, are we also saying that other brand mouthpieces? Earnest question from a rank amateur who played thru high school and is now attempting to "rediscover" the instrument. I played a 3C the whole time not knowing that there were hundreds of options available between various manufacturers and only just recently heard Charlie Porter's video comparing trumpets from $200 to $20000 played back to back with both VB mouthpieces and also each played with a Monette. The difference was obvious to these old ears.

Hi guys, I have played using different mouthpieces in my life, different brand and different sizes. Different throats and backbore like Monette Style. Actually I'm a happy trumpeter with an Yamaha 11C4 modified (Throat 3,8mm, backbore just few broad and lenght total 81mm) However I suggest you to try the wonderfull Dario Frate Mouthpieces from Italy.

I remember reading that the 3C was designed for a lead player in one of the big bands (Glenn Miller I think) and was pushed into the Bach line. I would like to see someone do a book on Bach mouthpieces similar to the one on trumpets

Mouthpieces is like never ending sea.

Bach 7B feels diffrent..no sharp edge..

Very interesting! How do you explain the values mentioned in an official Bach document available on their website (named "AV2BA901_Original_1889_web.pdf"):
Approx Cup Diameter 1 1/2 C 17.00 mm, 3C 16.30 mm, 7C 16.20 mm, which is not in line with the value you show in the video.

I don’t understand how people are able to switch back and forth between different rim diameters. I can see changing cup depths depending on what you’re playing, but I can’t play anything other than the rim diameter I play on. Anything smaller and I can’t “fit” into it and my low range suffers. My high range is fine, so that’s not a concern. What I look for is that balance of the right amount of resistance. Not so much that you’re fighting to produce the notes, and not so little that you feel like you’re being sucked into the horn. I want just enough resistance to feel like the horn and I are working together, and no more.

Very interesting video!
Trumpet beginner here: what is meant by a "cushion rim" when referring to Bach mouthpieces?

Can someone here please suggest a source for large-throat trumpet mouthpieces? I’m looking for a few mouthpieces that have essentially standard rims and standard bowls BUT have much larger than normal throats to try out. Thanks in advance!

Please do a video about trumpet mouthpiece throats, a subject which in my view does not get discussed nearly enough as cup shape, volume and diameter seem to receive most attention.

Wow that was very interesting my safari is even more crazy now! Cheers

No player should choose a mouthpiece based on what they see in VennCAD.

Every player needs to do a blind test with a few mouthpieces at a time, maybe three. Pick one, stick with it for a few weeks, then take that one and two new ones and do another blind test. After two or three play throughs, pick one for a six month run, then repeat with the two other best options and you'll probably be able to understand exactly what you need. THEN you can design something custom based on this process. I know, for instance, I play better on a narrow rim, sound better with a deep cup, and play highs and lows better with a smaller diameter cup, but no where near as small as a lead, I mean like a 7C vs a 1.5C.

I am still a low level intermediate adult player, so honestly, except for mouthpieces at either extreme, I sound and play pretty much the same on every mouthpiece, with the exception, perhaps, of Monette's new Unity and maybe a top end Lotus - neither of which I can afford.

so interesting.What do you think of jk moutpices.I have 1.5 c fl(16.8 mm)and 3 tpt mpc. 1.5 c 1.5 d 1.5e and they have exatly the rim and cup diam.(16.8mm)Thanks very much for the video