We Have To Talk About 'You've Got Mail' - The Story of a Narcissistic Sociopath and His Girlfriend

OK, fun take on this movie by overthinking it. Alternative take, rich jerk eventually redeems himself and falls in love, with entertaining and endearing performances by a couple of the most likable actors in the business.

“Exterminated her dreams” is some of your finest writing yet. Excelsior.

Me and the wife watched this movie a few months ago. Last time I saw it was probably in the beginning of the 2000s when I was in my late teens. I remember thinking it was okay but nothing special. In either case when watching it again roughly 20 years later we essentially had the same reaction you did Dave. Although our reaction when the credits rolled was merely "this movie is fucked up". And we both felt a bit disgusted.

I had a similar reaction when re-watching Blade Runner, in anticipation of Blade Runner 2049, when reaching the "love" scene which basically amounts to sexual assault.

Yes, I realize that norms have changed but the fact that those norms were considered acceptable probably is a part as to why (some) men thinks it's okay to treat women like trash. My 2 cents.

Wow I kind of love this

I had always heard this movie thrown around as one of the best romcoms so when I finally watched it for the first time in college, I was shocked and confused because Joe's only redeeming characteristic was that he was played by Tom Hanks.

Each one of those traits describes Trump perfectly

Dude, me and some buddies bring this up on occasion and yeah, we all see it and have a laugh about it but then the large majority of other people are just like "huh?" But seriously, it's a total twisted stalker movie lol, for real!

The majority of rom-coms are about sick relationships. Women say that want one thing but their taste in these dramas tells a different story.

It's weird that Nora Ephron made this movie, considering in a way it's sort of a male fantasy romcom movie, where he always has agency and is in a position of power and is able to shape and manipulate the situation in his favour.

vindication!

TBF - I suspect 89% of all RomComs involve at least one sociopath/narcissist. And 9% involve two...

I kinda disagree with the sociopath/narcissist take, having had the displeasure of knowing some. There are moments where I do believe he feels remorse for his actions, the second half has major stalker vibes but that also feels like romcom contrivances. What I’ve always felt about You’ve Got Mail is how poorly it’s aged, not just the AOL or emailing part but all the people. You mention the happily ever after but I mean, Fox books where would they be now. And Greg Kinnear the journalist? Yikes. The little girl whose dad would have died about the time she graduated high school. Head cannon for me is that Meg Ryan had the happiest ending because she started working in publishing for Scholastic and published the Harry Potter books which first release in the US in 1998. This is a weird movie 22 years later.

This is amazing. My wife and I watch this film a few times a year and even though I've seen this so many times... I've never really looked at it this way. Great stuff.

Not to go there, but... as each one of characteristics came on screen... I thought of the Mango Mussolini himself DJT.

Joe fox gets with Kathleen as then Kathleen becomes Mrs fix books becoming queen of the whole bloody thing - Business .... It's the reverse taming the shrew as the deal is Joe mellows but with out losing too much pride, he learns true humanity , Kathleen who has visited fox books becomes a writer on her own right and running the whole damn book scene in new York.... But who is her father? I hope it is not Joe's grandpa!!!!!

I would love to see a series of these, Dave Chen Tries Romcoms.

I understand your analysis but you really should be analyzing the original “The Shop around the Corner”.

This used to be my favorite romcom—Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan are so watchable and endearing. But on my last watch, it was hard to ignore Joe Fox’s lies and manipulation.

i would have said to you "Go To Hell" but you dont deserve that no matter how much you criticize the movie i like.....after all, its just a movie............

I honestly don't think it's appropriate to diagnose a character given the limited pull from actual psychology that thus video makes but also how it is built upon a very deep stigma against the diagnosis of "sociopath" which is now named "antisocial personality disorder"

You can really make similar critiques against most romcoms, to be honest. They always frame the narrative around terrible, broken, and/or amoral characters

Yeha well the shop arround the corner had 3 employers for the job of 1.

Fox have empaty to the others thats the reson he didnt nail the girl.

But yeha he is narcisistic

I just watched this movie for the first time, and at the end all I could think was... "THAT'S THE END?" - I fully expected him to close his shop, or rename his shop and give it to her. Instead he knows who he is talking to for weeks, yet he keeps leading her on. What a monster.

Ugh so glad I'm not alone in seeing all this. The Shop Around the Corner still wins

Clearly Joe shouldn't have lied and it's pretty gross how he acts for first half of movie. But he continues to lie because he knows that she is going to have to fall in love with his online version of himself before she will ever forgive him for closing her business. He hopes she'll forgive him and knows it will take time for that to happen. That's it. But yeah, the part where he doesn't intervene is pretty weird, the part where he gets angry at her in all sorts of insecurity is weird too, but also human nature I suppose since she is complaining about him on tv. Not sure I would call this person a narcissist, but certainly flawed.

...or it's clear she loves this guy but she's so consumed by the business experience she wouldn't give it a chance, so he wisely breaks down her hatred by letting her get to know him

You are delusional

You are so stuck on your own narrative that you don’t understand that this movie is about flawed people and their journey to become better people.

No reason? He did it for the money. His own personal success. Hw was a business man. It’s not personal, it's business. That was his mantra. "Whenever you feel that you're losing your nerve, remind yourself, it's not personal, it's business." This wasn’t a sociopathic enterprise, it was a capitalist one. Using charm to manipulate others? That's every salesperson that has ever lived. Or at least every successful salesperson. No question Joe Fox used his knowledge gleaned through their online correspondence to worm his way into Kathleen's heart. So did Jimmy Stewart as Alfred Kralik in The Shop Around the Corner and Van Johnson as Andrew Larkin in The Good Old Summertime. The first two movie iterations of this story.

What I do agree with you one hundred percent. Is that it seems very unrealistic that Kathleen would be able to forgive him for crushing her business. To her, it was personal. Very personal.

Joe did handle the first real meeting with her horribly. But when she wrote back to him and said all those nice things to him how he didn't seem the type of person to stand her up, Joe realized Kathleen was still Shopgirl, the girl he had fallen for and was excited to meet in real life. She is sweet, kind and trusts him. He tries to write two different lies about what happened why he was not able to show up, but it doesn't feel right to him. He erases them and then he tells her as much of the truth as he can, letting her know someday he will explain everything to her, for now he is still there online for her.

Joe didn't worm his way into Kathleen's heart, they already both really liked each other online. Joe had to mend their real-world rivalry and befriend her before he could let her know he was the NY152 she had fallen for. If he had told her right away he was the guy she was writing to, it probably would have ended in her no longer writing to him and no chance to mend fences and win her over in real life the way he had won her heart online.

When his father mockingly asked him if he had ever met anyone that filled his heart with joy, Joe realized there was only one girl who did that, Shopgirl/Kathleen.

p.s. and all that psychology stuff is bs. I've met several people who were going for psychology as a profession and every one of them were mentally unstable people.

I can't even get past the fact that she falls in love with the guy who destroyed her business.

I like the part where he punishes her by making her his wife and sharing all his million$ and thousands of bookstores around the country with her. In addition to essentially limitless resources, wealth and security, he also gave her a family. And since this is America, she now has a legal claim to a substantial amount of his assets. Yeah, what an absolute psycho. Forest for the trees.

Unfortunately Dr Goggle some of your analysis is not supported by the script. For example the supermarket scene. Go back and check it out. Joe to Kathleen "Do you need some money?" Kathleen to Joe"No I do not need any money. Thank you very much"You must have a different version of the scene.

This is a romantic movie me and my wife adore. You should be ashamed of yourself for creating this hateful video.

1. Charming is a good quality
2. He got upset because the journalist lied.
3. Big business don’t end up being business if they are considerate about small business. Survival of the fittest.
4. He showed her his true character. (Touching her was creepy though)
5. He wanted her to fall for the real him and not the internet version of him.

Looking back on it, he didn’t really know her that well when going to visit her in her apartment. I don’t recall her ever giving him the address. I think because the audience knows he’s the guy she’s been communicating with online, they forgive it but from Kathleen’s POV it must be kind of strange. Also yeah he could’ve saved her business and he’s not even the one who offered her the editor job, his girlfriend was. Sir, I know Mr.Darcy and you are no Mr.Darcy! lol

this was a terrible BS video, waste of time ! luckily and unexpectedly this was saved by the comment section which is absolutely brilliant and turned my wasted video time into something meaningful..

Its honestly disturbing how many people defending joe in the comments . I dont think kathleen was a complete angel either and its odd no one mentions the fact that they were both emotionally cheating on their partners and being super sneaky and deceiving. But joe uses so much manipulation, purposely makes kathleen feel like trash by standing her up and then showing up as himself and making her feel worse . Him coming into her home without permission and touching her face made me so uncomfortable. I think the story could of been romantic if he had just apologized for ruining her life and instead used his money to buy her shop and gift it back to her. I could see kathleen running a childrens center since she loved kids so much and reading to them.

I despise this movie. In the movie it's a light remake of, Shop Around the Corner, Stewart's character uses the book Sullavan is reading, Madame Bovary, to draw a parallel that she shares her flaws in a legitimate, observable way. In You've Got Mail, Hanks mocks Ryan for liking Pride and Prejudice and assumes she likes it without merit. HAAAAAAAAATE.

Ok. I've always loved the movie. But I can't get over that he did actually catfish her. Sorry guys, but that's what happened. He found out who she was and didn't immediately tell her who he was. Then, he started making her fall for him instead of his online persona. He led the conversations exactly the way he wanted them to go. It was manipulative. He should have been honest from the first "meeting" but he decided to continue playing the jerk she already knew him to be, then he felt bad because he realized he actually liked her and he'd made her feel horrible so he began manipulating her.
Going back and watching these movies is horrible because we're all so much more informed than we used to be and we're realizing how toxic all these "romcoms" we used to love really were.

You have totally mis the meaning of this movie. Your review sucks.

This analysis is totally one-sided. Sociopathic individuals only enjoy attention and they do not feel emotions the way we do. They do not fall in love the way normal individuals do. Clearly NY152 or Joe Fox and Shopgirl had fallen in love with each other online. When Joe realised that Shopgirl was Kathleen in real life, his business rival, he decided to reconcile and befriend her. He wanted her to like him the way he was, before he could let her know that he was NY152 whom she had fallen for. If had told her directly, it would have ended the beautiful relationship that they shared online. Also, after not showing up as NY152, Joe mentioned that he would still continue to be her online friend and would explain someday the reason for his absence.Narcissistic people would never care to give an explanation.
However, one thing cannot be denied. Joe Fox, with his unlimited wealth and important connections, could at least, have helped Kathleen to revive her small business in some other interesting way.