How Marvel Comics' Editors Ruined Hobgoblin

Good. Hobgoblin is a knockoff of Green Goblin. If it were up to me, there wouldn't be a single knock-off left in the Marvel universe. Nor would there be an Ultimate Universe. No X-23. No Wolfsbane, Wild Child, Thornn or Feral. No Red Hulk, etc.

And I never, ever would have made the cosmic-scale unforced error of giving Wolverine an immeasurably lame origin, much less naming him something as common as James. Giving him an origin killed his mystery. He's Logan. That's all you need to know.

... and Spider-Man is Peter Parker. Only Peter Parker. Miles Morales as Spider-Man is an unnecessary knockoff created for money only.

Guy look! Miles Morales’ Spider-Man!

This is what happens when you edge too long and it ends up being disappointing.

In the aforementioned story with Flash Thompson Ned Leeds gets angry because... and then Hobgoblin frames the former football player. Was it a red herring? Is it one of the elements David based his act on? At one point it seems that the Rose could be Kris Keating if I remember correctly.

its interesting that both Goblins Green Goblin and Hobgoblin .. had their inventor have a fight with the Editior of the title and then leaving the title before the reveal did happen .....

I was buying these comics as it came out, and I had no idea there were any issues. It all seemed fine to me. I also remember nor caring it was Ned Leeds because he was such a nobody.

Best thing i think was to never reveal his secret. Mysterious like Joker. DC killed Joker when they revealed who he was.

1.) in a Spectacular Spiderman issue, Ned Leeds has lunch with Peter, Harry and others when Harry and Liz announce their pregnancy. Spiderman spider sense would go crazy being next to him unmasked

2.) inner monologue in issue 250 of ASM reveals that Kingsley wasn't Hobgoblin either because of the blackmail. While the spider sense was disabled at the time, it wouldn't have triggered near him, the inner monologue reveals Kingsley is worried about being blackmailed.

They screwed Venom up even more. Here you had the PERFECT next nemesis with Eddie Brock and the Symbiote. Both were filled with hate and the Symbiote eliminated the Spider Sense to be combined with its knowledge of Peter Parker... this was a terrifying villain that knew of Peter's secrets. And what did Marvel do with that? Venom should have been a generational Spider-Man villain. Instead, they completely ruined it.

thank you for this video!

Holy cr who animated that intro?

Despite the huge mess this was both in public and in private I kind of love what this added to the character of Kingsley. The fact that hes so paranoid and careful he synthesises this insane plot that has all the characters fooled for close to a decade. Idk I kinda love it

Hobgoblin was like watching sequels to Lethal Weapon: it was far off from its original idea. Hobby never had a strong purpose like Venom and Tombstone...great looking but just crapped all over plus guessing who he was idea...Kingsley Leeds Aunt May??? After the GG 2 idea it went into the toilet.

This was a really important story to me and my friends as a kid. Hobgoblin is a lot more interesting than Norman Osborn who should have stayed deceased in Marvel

When I was a kid I would always misread “hobgoblin” as “hobo goblin” and I still have to stop myself from calling him the hobo goblin

Unpopular opinion I don't like MCU Spider-Man

Ned Leeds was NEVER Peter Parker's best friend in the comics

Cobb goblin and Green goblin are two of the coolest but completely different villains in Marvel Comics, besides Doctor Doom and magneto.

I dont think its out of focus I think his shirt is just messing up our eyes

I’m glad you did a deep dive into this… it was one of my favorite storylines on ASM … I NEVER bought into the Ned Leeds was the Hobgoblin and to see him killed in Spider-Man vs Wolverine was tragic but the retraction that he was Hobgoblin & got OVERPOWERED by the Foreigner’s men ( with his power level ) never made sense at the time ( and even this was later retracted ugh ) this behind the scenes mayhem / chaos was crazy

I mean they have ruined the entire Marvel comics, their sales are currently so far in the toilet

I just remembered there had been several hobgoblins

Does anyone know if this run is in an epic collection?

It’s interesting how much of the Green Goblin in Spectacular Spider Man borrows elements from Hobgoblin’s story…not a bad thing at all (that’s a great show) just interesting

I actually collected this series when it first came out. Ned Leeds being Hobgoblin was ridiculous. How Priest fell for this premise I'll never understand (likely never read previous issues). The best reveal would've been Richard Fisk (whom I'd actually presumed was the antagonist). He had the resources, likely wanted to impress his father (a la Michael and Vito Corleone) and possibly driven somewhat insane by the Goblin Formula. Such chemicals (like Heroin) no human can truly overcome. This would've been more interesting than that Ned Leeds nonsense.

I was born in 1978 and even though I was still a kid in 1987 the Hobgoblin being Ned Leeds didn’t make much sense to me.

I was a avid collector of Spider-Man back in the early 80s, and I remember being captivated by the Hobgoblin mystery at the time. As a kid, I had no clue as to the turmoil behind the scenes, and I remember how it was teased that Ned might be the Hobgoblin. Among my friends, for which this was a "serious" debate topic, I remember being a supporter that Ned was the Hobgoblin versus others who had different theories.

This was a great episode, Chris. I absolutely love these comic book history episodes. I'm a big fan.

Thanks for the video!

I started off thinking Hobgoblin looked so cool, but was just a lame Green Goblin wannabe. I quickly realised that he was a very different character and got to really enjoy his storyline. This made the final revelation and death of Leeds so much worse, as it made no sense it was him, and his death seemed badly writer,r ushed and shoe-horned in, all of which turned out to be true.

Spider-Man versus Wolverine is one of the best comics I have ever read. it's a great spy story. I did think when I read it that the Hobgoblin storyline was a bit odd to have been included, though.

I vividly remember buying a bunch of comics, including Amazing Spider-Man 289, on my way to church camp. I was totally busted for reading that comic instead of my Bible readings. It was worth it!!

Couldn't a good writer ret-con this and have it so the real Hobgoblin had been in prison or away for some reason and the other identities be false flags? What a great comeback. I say this as someone who hasn't read a comic in 20 years 😂

That was a great breakdown keep up the Fantastic work good sir

I've loved the Hobgoblin since watching the 1994 TASM as a kid, he just stood out to me more than the Green Goblin.
So I've always been disappointed at how little he was used since, and how he always seems to be Harry Osborne instead in later media.
Oh, and TASM also made me love The Spot.

Why they gotta ruin hobgoblin 😭

I always preferred Hobgoblin over Green Goblin. He just had those more muted 80's tones and had a cooler look.

This tropes channel is so slick I hate it

What a bunch of children

How the hell can this bloke say Spider-Man sales had steadily declined since 1962??

238 and 289 were the best issues.
Most of the rest were just attemts to farm Ditko's creation for more $s.

Ironically, Greg Weissman would go on to do the Hobgoblin mystery in a well-done way for Spectacular Spider-Man's animated show... only he used the Green Goblin instead and the show was canceled before Hobgoblin was slated to appear in the next season. Hobbie just can't catch a break.

Hobgoblin caused total chaos.....in real life among the editors! LOL

Just discovered your channel, am greatly enjoying it. Always thought Roger Stern and Doug Moench were two writers from that time that never got the credit they deserved. Was always curious about why the Hobgoblin plot line fizzled out, now I know! Thanks!

hobgoblin sounded really alot better than green goblin

Looks like somebody forgot to include the Scorpion on that cool page of solid Ditko gold.
Meanwhile, let's see... I think I left Spidey shorty after the Ditko/Romita era,
so I would've totally missed all the Hobgoblin stuff (which I don't like as
a name because it's sounds too much like Green Goblin).

All I got from this is hobglobin is a dr doom variant of green goblin

I guess I had never read it out loud but I just today got the pun of a reporter named "leads." 😂

I started reading at the end of the Clone Saga, and Hobgoblin Lives came out soon after that. When it was revealed to be Roderick that was disappointing. It was some guy I'd never heard of who hadn't been in the comic for a decade.

Now that I know the history better I have no issue with it. Dan Slott brought him back decades later and he's been pretty cool since then.