Destiny Debates: Post-'Blaire White vs Contrapoints Debate' Discussion

Re Autism: I'm reminded more about being deaf for being "only bad". There's a huge community around protecting the deafness of deaf people. Some deaf parents elect not to fix their deaf child's hearing. It's an interesting stance.

There are « soft » compatibalists who clearly define what free will means for them : For example take Viktor Frankl.
« Between stimulus and response there is a margin in which we all have a choice in the the stance that we take toward our situation. »

Nice conversation. However, as I see it, both side's base argument, in these pseudo political/existential/wtf discussions, is that the other side is ignorant!? No matter how much I actually agree with you guys, and understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, there's factor that seems to grow exponential the further we progress from the preliminary questions, which in many cases were asked in pure honesty, when discussing with people we kind identify in opposition to, and that's is the factor of dominance. And you guys also are displaying behavior of dominance when discussing ms. White, no?
This is of course a weird factor to talk about, when it comes to political discussion, but in my view it plays a very big part if we want to understand what's going on? Guilt by association can be one of those tricks used, when trying to dominate your opponent, and in that perspective it suddenly makes a whole lot of sense why, as an example, Thunderfoot is/was going rampage on certain topics. He was probably deemed guilty by association at some point, and swirled into war mode? I mean, Contrapoint is probably deemed guilty by association, with those who believe Cis men who wouldn't want to sleep with a trans woman, suffers from a phobia in a literal sense, where the term phobia is defined as it is in the dictionary? And so on...

I had to turn it off, Blaire was so frustrating.

"Why did you say trans women are men?"
"Because they are."
"But what reason?"
"Because they are."
"Here's a list of reasons you're wrong."
"Yeah but they are."

Then the APA thing:

"Here is how the APA uses words."
"No. Because it's not used that way on the internet meme I'm thinking of right now."

yeah but also Blaire was just wrong and stupid.

DONT IGNORE HER WHEN SHE MAKES JOKES ABOUT HER ALCOHOLISM! tzzz

I give y’all a lot of credit for debating the anti-SJW people because they are disingenuous and you are debating from a very genuine place. They follow the money and they know the only way to monetize is by playing the “token” and/or identifying as a “woke liberal” with extreme right wing beliefs. They’re gross but l do believe they’re loosing steam regarding their relevance and subscribers.

Lol being a liberal does not equate to being a pc advocate.

The amount of left wing people that have dabbled in the right wing is really enlightening (Natalie, destiny, me)
They talked a bit about liberals taking on right wing sentiments in opposition to sjws and it's funny because my departure away from the left started with h3h3s mockery of feminazis.

Natalie has some great videos on her channel about the balancing act between self expression/digestability and the snowflakery that makes the left unappealing.
A video of hers called the darkness is a great place to start. (FYI Natalie is contrapoints, she's transitioned since this video)

I think the indigestible, outraged left can be a lot for people to sympathize with and turns people away from this political view. Natalie is a great gateway drug to the left as she is hilarious and doesn't have a victim complex.

Any who, I found both destiny and Natalie from a dudes video aboury how he slipped into the right wing and what brought him out of it. I'm gonna binge more destiny, but I just want to say that discussions about how society and the left wing make people despise the left are important. It's discussions like this led me away from Ben Shapiro videos and to here instead.

I patently disagree with your notion that people ought to manicure their audience by choosing only one political side to bash. It is perfectly possible to be economically left leaning while simultaneously not being down with using collectivity-based science to analyze and use at the individual level.

If one has a problem with the emergent left, which they love and wish to serve, they will attack its faults, audience be damned. I respect the person who cares more about what they believe to be true than what is politically seemly and expedient.

Is it just me or was Contra just reiterating all of Destiny's point?

Breggsit

Calling it "wound" It´s not an "ultra technical way" of calling it. It´s literally what it is.

@contra points

About children teens transitioning. With intersex people, intersex people advocate for the child to grow and make a decision on their own. Transtrenders, gender queer, non binary etc say they don't need to cross the binary, need full transition, hrt, and surgery to be trans but they push that trans children need all three or else.

I notice a large number of trans people who surgically transition express "wait and see" with trans kids and see the importance medical gatekeeping but its shrugged off.
SJW have said let those who have that experience speak for themselves. But in the trans community transsexuals are not allowed to speak for themselves.

Why are transsexuals not allowed to address their point of view of minors transitioning but non surgical trans are allowed to push SRS on others.


Medical gatekeeping is important. Even outside trans Medical issues. If a man wants Viagra the doctor needs to look at their medical history and data to see if it's not going to be worse on the patient.

A psychiatrist looks to see what will work best. A surgeon looks at patients chart to prevent a dangerous event. People don't just get knee replacements or adderall because they ask for it. They need to show they need it and they are educated by the doctor to have the best success.

This is a common and acceptable practice in medicine. But in the trans community its seen as gatekeeping and wrong, and some advocating removing gate keeping when it puts the person at greater risk?

Was Natalie paid to appear on this video

can't discuss something because some people....on the radical side might misuse it

..................lol k

Lol, "contrapoints"/William Parrott declares White people non-existent and then DEMANDS that they used nice cutesy words not to hurt HIS feelings. Request denied.

Funny how much more respect destiny talks about contra but if she was a straight white male Destiny would rip him and call him a biggot

I mean, Blair white IS technically correct. Trans women can never be actual women.

I get what you're trying to say Destiny, but autism can be seen as a good thing. Aside from the philosophical aspect of there is no 'good' or 'bad' or 'truth'...autism is a neurological disorder that prohibits a person from being able to read social cues. Maybe a lot of social cues are actually bad, and it can therefore be a good thing to not read or respond to them. :)

Trans women are not biological women. Blaire is correct. She consider herself a woman but she knows she is not a biological woman. It's just that simple.

I'm surprised how poorly Contra misrepresented compatibilism. Free will is about responsibility. Responsibility is about our ability to consider how our actions affect others. When we make uncoerced choices considering both what we wish to accomplish and how the way we are accomplishing them affects others, we are exercising free will. You should really consider the will rather than freedom when thinking about compatibilism in a deterministic universe or you probably won't get it. In this context, that your will may be determined is of little importance in that it is still your will. Each of us is unique in our choices because your will is yours alone and mine is mine alone, etc.

Being gay is only social distressing because of external circumstances same with being black. Being either of those things isn’t inherently distressing. Wanting to have a female body and live a female experience is nearly impossibly distressing. We live in a time where science makes it easier and can actually facilitate some extent of accomplishing it but they’ll never fully be the thing they want to be. How is that not deeply unfortunate? If you could take a pill and not have that desire that’s practically impossible to accomplish why not? I think if you’re non binary and have no deep desires to medically change their physical form and are content with themselves as they were born there is no need to consider that an issue and want a cure. Trans gender is the only one that is inherently distressing and requires science and modernity to only mostly address it.

Values and aspects. You are talking about soul mechanics. 😁 We are going to use this video in our upcoming report on this debate. Heads up!

I am a fan of Blaire, part of her audience, and I told her she was wrong in that debate and precisely why. She blocked me for it.

Dude opened the conversation talking about a debate of two trans folk with.... "you guys" ROFL

In my humble lay man opinion: Destiny's take on compatibilism is on point!

Anyone arguing views they hold true are “saving face”! Saying that one person is doing that and not acknowledging you doing it yourself shows a clear moral superiority complex!

This doesn't even sound like Contrapoints. I wonder if the transition affected her voice to sound more like it does today

I'm autistic, and yes it can make my life more difficult but it is not purely negative. It gives me an unique view on the world. I also have a better eye for details than most people. It sometimes can come across as a bit of a power lol!
Many great scientists were autistic, I don't think that that is just a coincidence.

OK I'm three years late but I spent that time getting my philosophy degree so here's my attempt to sell compatibilism. I think that determinism's definition of free will is bad for three reasons.
1. It's incoherent. Contra covered this pretty well so I'm not going to get into it much. Basically, nothing non-random counts as free will, and nothing random counts as free will, so by the determinist definition free will is just impossible by definition. There's not even really any metaphysical insight to saying we don't have free will--you're just saying you're defining a word in a contradictory way.
2. It's esoteric. When we talk about the importance of freedom, or the choices we have to make, we're not committing to any kind of claim about the way the universe at large works. When they ask in a courtroom whether someone did something of their own free will, they don't need to bring in philosophers and neuroscientists and physicists to determine that. They just want to know if the person could have done something else if they'd wanted to. Destiny talks all the time about options and choices and what he's able to do despite being a determinist, so either what those words actually mean to him doesn't defy determinism, or else he's constantly speaking in metaphor, which seems like kind of a silly view of language. The way the word is actually used in day-to-day life fits the compatibilist definition, not the incompatibilist one.
3. It's impractical. There are actually good and interesting and important questions to be asked about when people are free and when they aren't, using freedom in the compatibilist sense. Can a child make free decisions? A baby? An animal? A computer? Can you make a free choice when one option is death? But in the incompatibilist sense it's just all swept under the metaphysical rug. It's not a useful definition for actually studying.

The whole dialogue was all "Non-binary" take it as you will

super chater

It's so odd to hear Contra's old voice..

Blaire absolutely understood, as she literally expressed, that it doesn't make sense to use technical language in everyday social situations, but that it's important to be able to speak technically in a technical situation; especially when practical thinking is literally discouraged on this topic, these days. We need to be able to have objective discussions about this.

The autism argument is an awesome one, but in another way. It's again a rating. Ratings are relative. It's totally up to your opinion to rate it as good or bad, but autistic persons naturally have to frame it as at least also positive or they feel threatened to be less worthy than the others and they would like most humans be afraid to be excluded from society. In modern days it's not life-threatening, but in the giant part of human history it would totally be. That's why connotation is creating fear. In the end It is the same reason why most people hate or lie about iq.

She views it as being a "punishing" condition. This is important. Don't forget.

why can't you be a real woman and a trans woman at the same time?

Contra points is an anti science freak

christ almighty contrapoints is absolutely delusional

This aged well.....

What is a woman lmao?