Is creativity essential to understanding the universe? | Roger Penrose and Iain McGilchrist

I love , admire and respect Sir Roger Penrose but someone needs to take charge of that combover !!!

creativity is part of the interconnectedness

Huh?

What does he say when I think he says matter produces "vast st John passion" after a few million years???? Thanks

Mumbo jumbo 😂

The Cosmos is addicted to the path of least resistance.

You’re missing Buddhism.

seems like these people aren't understanding each other

Dont know the answer but i know there will be only two choices with AIs usage think or abuse nothing grey❤❤🎉🎉

The Ability to SEE behind the Stuff-side,
is Intuition.
We can't see with the Intelligence.

Excuse me if im missing the point as im a childs mind in relation to Roger and Ian but as i study the esoteric sciences i find that the effect of "will" on the material world is a way that we can induce a reaction in both within the material and ethereal realms. Or an individual's perception of consciousness can create or alter the material universe. Rupert Sheldrake explains these concepts more distinctly in his theory of morphic resonance. My apologies for thinking allowed.

If we mortal beings ever came to understand the universe, we would conclude we were smarter than the universe and the universe was too smart to let that happen.

Creativity is essential to make us think that we will one day understand the Universe. We need it to make up stuff like the big bang to bang our heads around. But to be really conscious of the cosmos we must understand that to know that we will never understand the Universe is to understand the Universe. Knowing that this does not need to proven is Cosmic Consciousness. Prove me wrong.

Is there a concert next door. Audio is horrible.

neither of then answered this ridiculous question. probably because they didn't expect the question could be this dumb.

The universe is God itself. The universe is NOW. Eternity is NOW.

Sometimes i think that there is only work and that all else is illusion. Does anyone have any thoughts on this ?

QM is indeed weird, just as epicyclic motions of planets were weird.

Discarding the paradigm of Geocentricism got rid of the weirdness and woo of planets being embedded in inter-penetrating nested crystal spheres.

Likewise, when the paradigm of atomism and timeism is discarded (topologicaly inverted) , no woo is required, and understanding the mechanism which fits maths and observations becomes trivial.

Who was have that great party upstairs?

What Penrose doesn't know is that general relativity is wrong in a much more serious way than quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics is essentially correct. He got it the wrong way around.

I think imagination is like the logic we might find in a dream. A way to combine disparate, even contradictory ideas into an experience which somehow "hangs together", and, as in the best dreams, reveal a new insight. I don't believe science leaves room for taking non quantitative ideas seriously. The way forward is to invite value and feelings into the realm of science. We should acknowledge our human intentionality rather than exclude all things not quantifiable.

Without imagination, how can we dream about the future we want, or even have a goal to aim for? 🙂

If left right hemisphere was a thing, how does someone lose a large portion of their brain matter yet remain completely unchanged? 🤔

Physicists has a theory that is admittedly 'incomplete', but Iain pins the issue brilliantly by exposing that we can't directly experience matter, but only through through consciousness. If we keep 'lumpen matter' for a million years it might turn into consciousness, doesn't explain how the transformation takes place, or what is consciousness. The philosopher suggest consciousness emerges out of matter like 'spectrum of light out of a prism' and matter can only be felt by consciousness and understanding the universe depends on it but not on creativity as physicist wants us to believe. Brilliant.

I would be grateful if somebody could help me decipher what Dr. McGilchrist says 3-4 min from the beginning. He seems to say:
materialists undervalue matter because according to your theory: If you leave matter alone for a few million years, it will start producing B on passion (?), for that lump of matter to do so you’re forced to accept that matter and consciousness are not entirely distinct.”

I believe this must be a recent interview? I am not sure how particle theory is still being talked about since 2022 noble prize in Physics when 3 scientists John Clauser, Alain Aspect and Anton Zeilinger, proved the universe isn't locally real. As time has progressed Einstein's theory's have been eroded. Spooky action at a distance is faster than the speed of light.
What is the one thing that is the truth in all of this? Consciousness is the filter all of this comes through it is inescapable. Consciousness is absolute ground zero. All things are connected to one, the source.
Get off the particle train! The materialistic train it's not real!

What does Iain say at 3.28? Matter will produce vast amount.....

Why must gravity have a particulate manifestation if it is not a force but only the effect of mass on space?

The Chinese have known for thousands of years that all is mind and balance. The West is just starting to realise this as they fade with demographic change. China is rising, along with idealism and the death of physicalism. This is enlightening news.

Well Bell’s Theorem makes it clear that we need a nonlocal theory of quantum mechanics for sure. Let’s pick up the low-hanging fruit in the superluminal world by noticing that there is more than one way to travel faster than light. I would suggest that one way is associated with wavelike behaviour, and the other way with particle-like behaviour. Maybe quantum mechanics is not such a mystery after all.

Good morning,
We know our universe is fine tuned with fundamental constants.
Also professor Roger Penrose calculated the chance for the universe in low Entropy state was incredibl mathematics number: 1 to 10^10^123
Our universe follow the mathematics language.
With all these information is not enough following our Logical Mind :
Impossible our fine tuned universe came by Chance!!
But only by Higher Intelligent Unique Merciful Creator!!
Thank you..!!

Roger Penrose is one of the greatest physicist ever!!!!.

The universe is alive and we are part of its collective consciousness creatively.

If I remember well the experiment of the particles being watched acted differently, in a certain way proves matter has consciousness or the atoms of a specific composition according to it's attraction laws would interact with some elements and no with others. This I believe categorized matter as being conscious!

Imagine having a mind that can be turned to any problem with a mathematical component. I'm glad that there are people like Sir Roger in the world.

(Anyone with a high opinion of themselves who pulls the 'Do you know who I am?' number with store/restaurant staff, and yelling at check-in people at airports - if Roger Penrose can conduct himself modestly despite his colossal attainment and vast reservoir of understanding, why can't you?)

we are visual beasts so thats what we do , but the invisible non matter is everywhere this is organized whit its own programming which again programs us DNA a program close to the program of non matter

Here is an idea … we are missing something (Penrose) our theories are self inconsistent. We have been accepting this for a 100 years now … it is time for another meeting of great minds of today to come up with a new set of ideas for future scientists to put their teeth in. Yes, and make a nice picture with a 100 people in it, some of whom will be remembered in the future. Most scientists today have accepted what should not be accepted. Get to work please in stead of lecturing about the past incomplete ideas.

we've no idea what is going on

Hi T I o A & I, listening to these two and Ian's remarks about the relationship between material and consciousness as if consciousness is the only experience throws up a question!. Is the physical impact of a human body with a bit of that lumpen material stuff a physical event or just a consciousness event?.
While I am quite happy to accept that my assertion that there is a material universe that does exist with which my entire body has a physical relationship is just an axiom, not one for which I can offer any exact evidence, it is however one which allows me to engage with that material universe in ways that rely on the strict consistent adherence to whatever the universe's governing principles are, thus I can build and mend my house, grow my food rear and butcher my animals, all of which I can apply my consciousness to but none of which are controlled by my mind!.
Cheers, Richard.

Bull sh**t. 666 is coming

Would you memorize and understand the atheist logical fallacy to save your life? The greatest knowledge of all time is atheism is a logical fallacy that assumes God is the religious idea of the creator of the creation to conclude wrongly no creator exists because a particular idea of God doesn’t exist. To understand atheism is a logical fallacy you have to understand all the arguments used by atheists only discredit the idea of perfection for a religious person or what atheists call "sky daddy", and not the idea that an intelligent entity superior to oneself created the universe from an eternal existence. The truth is the only that matters. The question that atheists can't answer and don't dare to ask is "is atheism a logical fallacy?". I am not asking you to believe me, but to discover the truth for yourself. Atheism is the belief immune to arguments that all reality is "creation" and nothing eternal exists, and that's why atheists ask "who created god?". Creation is what has a beginning of existence, like for example you. You didn't exist before you were born. They want to make me believe I am crazy and ignorant and I think it is logically impossible the existence of the creation or finitude without the creator or infinitude. I have explained a deception. To end all the wars in the world and atheism and religion the discovery that atheism is a logical fallacy has to be news. Did you understand I am suffering the most severe and devastating censorship in history in a social media era for many years trying to prove God's existence fulfilling humanity's dream? I hope for God's sake to be understood.

The answer to the overarching question is, yes.

Can you miss this??? My profile photo is of a minotaur behind the left ear on the Statue of David. The black spot is the eye, it has a nose ring, hairy horn, big bottom lip and a goatee.

what's the deal with the hip hop music playing in the background? how am I to take this talk seriously when it sounds like a party is going on nearby? thumbs down.

what was it Dr. Samuel Johnson said? Dualism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, was it?

Awareness is known by awareness alone.

Wow they jump into continuousness and fight over what they do not know. XD Einstein SGR doesn't break down and they keep invoking QM in bad ways. Black holes are finite systems. The universe is a finite system. Continuousness is not just ions on tubules. They keep failing on easy. A big part is perception along with imagination. Also knowing the delusions religious beliefs put forward.

Shut up Iain

Matter is there ur right sir

Especially the point Iain McGilchrist made on "constant flow" I liked. There is a poem by Goethe on this topic:
(After all the "Institute of Art and Creativity" is involved here.)

Sameness in Infinity (my translation)
____________________________
WHEN SAMENESS IN INFINITY
REPEATING FLOWS ETERNALLY;
WHEN THOUSANDFOLD THE VAULT EXTENDS
WITH FIRMLY INTERLOCKING BENDS;
THEN LIFE AND HAPPINESS WILL SPRING
FROM STARS, THE SUN, FROM EVERY THING;
AND ALL OUR URGING, ALL OUR SEARCH WILL BE
ETERNAL REST, O LORD, IN THEE.

Original:
______________________________
WENN IM UNENDLICHEN DASSELBE
SICH WIEDERHOLEND EWIG FLIESST,
DAS TAUSENDFÄLTIGE GEWÖLBE
SICH KRÄFTIG INEINANDERSCHLIESST,
STRÖMT LEBENSLUST AUS ALLEN DINGEN,
DEM KLEINSTEN WIE DEM GRÖSSTEN STERN,
UND ALLES DRÄNGEN, ALLES RINGEN
IST EWIGE RUH IN GOTT, DEM HERRN.

JOHANN WOLFGANG VON GOETHE (1749 - 1832)