1337 History of Russia & Political Map

You've got the finno-ugric migrations situation backwards. It is believed that proto-finno-ugric peoples have originated in Siberia, and then migrated westwards.

It is quite strange that there is a Kostroma principality, which includes Galich. I was born in Galich, and since childhood I have known that Kostroma and Galich were different principalities, which were gradually absorbed by Moscow
btw why all principalities named like capital sity, but Muscovy... why not Moskow?

Ludi the reason nizhny and kostroma are not tributaries is because they'd be directly under muscovy first who is a tributary to the horde. Vyatka might be in a similar situation

Why "Karachev principality" have other - non Rurikid - dynasty? They ruler's as example - Titus (real name, yeah) of Karachev - actually originated from Olgovich's house - a Chernygovian part of Rurikid dynasty. By my pov would be bettter if Karachev as principality been replaced to "Kozelsk principality" which actually was high ranked in hierarchy

I thought we will never see the Balkan and Carpathia

In 2021 gave a concert with band in Bryansk, lead singer born there, cool to see it in game, Bryansk to Russia campaign lesgooo

Severian culture isn’t real. Novgorodian Muscovite split is also very controversial

Responding to the black death part: Would it not be more appropriate if it scales to population density? Meaning it might be 60% of 12 mil for west (leaving ~4.8 mil pops) and 20% of 6 mil for east (leaving 4.8 mil pops). Possibly with another scaler that takes account for survives of a plaque in the last 50 years

Can't wait to see Middle East map, specially Persia, arabia and egypt

They should be russian sea and RuSSia doesnt exist

Про религию. Формальное крещение произошло в 988 году. Но считается что переход всех русских земель произошел во второй половине 11 века. Но огромное большинство населения не отказывались от религиозных обычаев, праздников, примет и правил. Даже сегодня в России празднуются языческие праздники. Один из примеров - масленица, день, чествовавший бога солнца Ярилу и все еще справляется сжиганием большого чучела и народных гуляний. Приметы, уходящие в славянские язычество тоже используется (в основном только старшим поколением)

Ludi you're wrong about the Udmurts because although they are a Finno-Ugric people, so are the Komi, Mari, Erzya, Moksha and Vepsians. In fact the Udmurts are more colesely related to the Komi than to the Finns, as Komi and Udmurt are both in the Permic branch of the Finno-Ugric family. Also the Finno-Ugric family is divided into 2 main groups, Finnic, and Ugric; similar to how Indo-European is divided into a European and an Indo-Iranian branch. In the Finnic branch we have various sub-branches, being the Finno-Karelians, the Sami, Permians, Mari and Mordvins. However the Magyars are in the Ugric branch, although many tribes of the Mogyer confederacy were Bashkir, Khazar, Mari and Mordvin. So no the Udmurts aren't closely related to the Magyars. They're about as closely related as the Germans and the Iranians.

Just for the lolz next week and Ludi's reaction I'd like to see them confirm that all Balkan nations start with some horrible modifier called `longing for Ottoman Order/Turkish Triumph´ that makes them unplayably weak, until the only just and acceptable outcome is achieved and all are subservient to the Sublime Porte, just like good ´ol IRL.
....Wait, why is Ludi leading a bunch of Balkan-looking men with pitchforks towards my front doo-
I TAKE IT BACK!!!!!

I agree 100% with everything you have said, however my concern is that we could have another Victoria 3 launch. Historical accuracy is important, but they need to make EU 5 a fun game to play.

This is the hardest video to watch because it's been your most reddit historian (ummm actually) video yet.

Where is suomenusko and there should be a lot more of Finno-Ugric language speakers

Fuck Ruzzia! Slava Ukraini!

You know first hand? What were you doing in 14th century Russia?

Komi are also finno-ugric as well as Karelians. There are also Mari and many other finno-ugric People that still live in Russia.

Pomori are Slavs (Russians) with Finno-ugric influence. At least those Pomori who are called that today.

We know that People spoke the same language before the Yoke between all of the Rus` except for Novgorodians. Modern Russian is Vladimiro-Kievan language mixed with Novgorodians, while Ukr and Belarus are mixed with Polish and Lithuanian because of the Yoke.

Also Russia wasnt fully converted to Christianity from local folk religions of Slavs before 16th century, though it is unlikely that any significant % of populace in the cities or having any tites were not orthodox (speaking of Russians)

There are still many traces of paganism in Russia today, but as another person pointed out it's not that x% of people are orthodox and y% are pagan, it's that the same people follow x% orthodox rituals and y% pagan rituals, it just all mixed up into the folk version of what they think is orthodoxy.

I think another way of what you're saying regarding the x% of populations is that there are not the same sort of quantity of data points that we have progressively more of up to modern day that allow for the sort of relatively precise statistical analysis of population percentages. (Trying to reword "That's not how history works" to something that may be more compelling). So it's necessary to, as you put it, read multiple sources and get a whole body picture of the situation and then make reasonably educated guesses as to a likely/reasonable amount of the population that may have fit a particular type.

Additionally, I think it's worth noting that there were very likely hybrid religious areas in some of these lands, where there may have been a church, and the people may have attended and worshipped at the church, but they also may have celebrated certain seasonal rites that were traditional to them but could also have been viewed as religious in their origins. And in those areas, how many of the people "worshipping" at the church may have also been worshipping their pagan gods as well? How does the game want to treat those people, etc.

Functionally I don't think anyone is going to get too mad if it's 3% or 7% or 15% or whatever unless that number starts to have a substantive impact on gameplay that sticks out, and the number is also at an extreme end of what seems like an acceptable spectrum.

Great video as always!!

That eastern Europe has way less population after the plague is kinda normal. I mean.. for balance reasons you can say to compensate this they are more tough and so on.. but the reality is, that because of the good infrastructure, dense population and so on, although nearly allways fighting west europe is nowadays and was in the past way more dense populated than eastern Europe.. especially russia, ruthenia and the horde regions.

But surely you can go ahead and work at the modifiert migration in EUV like Brandenburg kinda did, when they wanted to "get" the hugenotten of france.

We see how much Russia is strengthening in the game compared to reality. Apparently the developer wants the emergence of Russia and its hegemony regardless of the player’s actions and his efforts or failures, which is really strange. It is worth considering that even today this territory is forests and swamps, what can we say about 1337. The population figures are huge, these territories cannot support such a population. Significant population growth begins with the development of the southern fertile lands, which were occupied by the Horde in 1337. Seversk culture does not make sense, because... the territory of Smolensk is the place of residence of the Krivichi, and the territory near Bryansk is the place of residence of the Radimichi. Both of these tribes are the basis of the Belarusian ethnic group; in this situation, it would be logical to attribute these lands to the Rusyn culture. You can look at maps of the distribution of the Belarusian language, provided that Russia has Russified these lands for centuries. You can look at the maps of Dovnar-Zapolsky

You want some knowledge about Slavic religion? I can give you as a Polish guy. When Austria occupied my country in XIX they tried to not to make angry some Polish people who was catholic but.... in reality they still cultivated old Slavic beliefs that were forbidden by the church. Austria didn't like it because Rome was looking at them, but at the same time they were afraid to do anything about it because they didn't want rebellions. Besides, we still have holidays in Poland that were practiced by Slavic religions and we all celebrate them. Why I say that? Because its no way russia was Orthodox in 100 years and golden horde in 20 years. After 1000 years we (Poland) are still quiet slavic pagan catholic

Thank you for that rant about religions. You just did NOT get censuses (censi?) about most of this stuff in most of the world the 14th century. The rus only converted maybe a century later than Scandinavia so Pavia asking for ultra precise sources on Slavic pagansism while casually throwing in some Norse pops in Sweden is a very improper way to go about things. As for the Golden Horde: My understanding that the Golden Horde first got a muslim khan under Berke in 1257, and his anger at other branches of the Mongols sacking Baghdad was part of what precipitated the series of civil wars before Kublai solidified his rule. Was that just his personality, with official conversion to "paganism is not allowed" islam only happening later? Anyways, Pavia does say that the steppes are incomplete but still good to point things out.

One thing I am curious about is if nation formations will unify and create new cultures. If you form Russia, would it convert Novgorodian, Muscovite, and Severia into Russian? If so, would it be instantaneously (which would be wildly inaccurate) or a gradual population identity change? Perhaps they'll add a feature where higher centralization could lead to more unified cultures. Its a slippery slope though.

Is Komi not Finno-Ugric? I didn't know that.

Technically KArelian and Finnisch are part of the Finno-Ugric Branch which migrated out of the Uralic region, the Magyars migrating southwards towards Pannonia in the early middle ages. So I am not sure that they went around the north to become the Udmurt people, I suppose the Udmurt stayed there and the Finns moved away?

Immidiate Red Flags:
1. Moscow is called Muscovy instead of Moscow or Moskva
2. Tributaries as you pointed out
3. Cultures are completely wrong. By the 14th century there was no such thing as Novgorodian, Muscovite, Severian or Ruthenian culture. Generally speaking the population identified as Russian with local duchies having their own particularities. Having a Ruthunian culture at all, let alone in the 14th century, is equally nonsensical as Ruthenian just means Russian in latin. Why those are also diferent cultural areas when up until the late 15th century there were virtually no cultural or linguistic differences between the slavs in Galicia, the Slavs in Novgorod or the Slavs in Moscow is beyond me. The historic region of Ruthenia was a term invented by the Poles to refer to Russia in Latin. Thats it. In Polish, Novogorod and Vladimir were just as "Ruthenian" as they were Russian. By the 14th century, the culture of former medieval Russia in a broader sense (like German, French etc.) was very much one including for the territories under Lithuanian occupation.
4. Severian is like an east Slavic equivalent to Saxon or Swabian. It is a Russian sub culture. It would stop being a relevant culture the moment medieval Russia was founded and established by the late 10th century. After that the entire region should have the "Russian" culture untilt the late 15th century by which time the cultures would be devided into "Velikorussian", "Malorussian" and "Belarussian" (and Severorussian if Moscow does not take Novgorod). That is generally how the cultures developed in reality and how they were percieved both locally and in the historical cencus.

In fact, it looks like an attempt to humiliate Russia. Judge for yourself, French culture is not divided, German culture is not, but Russian culture is

Vyatka was not principality at all) It was an outpost founded in 1367 by Novgorodian river expedition on the way to the east) in few years it became a somewat pirate-republic, the raided everybody near them and even once have had a bid raid on Holden Horde capital Sarai. But in the early 15th century they fall under rule of near Galich princes and then under Ivan the Teriible. why I know all of that?) I've born in the Kirov, which before 1934 is known as Vyatka)

Wow! That's an awesome breakdown. Thank you very much!
About Black Death, I'm from Russia and I remember how it was described in our history class. It was said that because of population density, and poor trade relations. The territories of russia had little trade with others (relative to western Europe). It would be good if they added special modifiers where population density is taken into account.
Also on lessons told that on the past experience people began to go to baths regularly and to wash dishes. But I do not think that in this respect Russ differs from Western Europe in fact.

спасибо за работу)

удмуртов не несколько тысяч, а более половина миллиона)

Чувак рассуждает об исторической достоверности восточной европы, при этом используя не исторически достоверное название московского княжества.
Никогда не существовало "московии", всегда было московское княжество, так что правильно говорить просто москва, а не московия.
Московия же это польское оскорбительное название москвы. Так что меня, всегда корежит это этого пренебрежения на грани расизма. Это как германию называть бошей, англию лаймом, а францию лягушкой.

Rurik had one son.

About the plagues, we were also much cleaner. Banya at least once per week.

Russian Paganism is just bound to be a playable religion in the game and it likely was represented in the territory of Russia at this time!

Event to restore Slav Pagan from idols from River like Zbruch Idol or Kyivan idols are best choice

Поморы тенгрианцы это ржака

Спасибо за видео, а я вам предлагаю почитать Карамзина и Соловьева😊

Nice understanding of russian history, Ludi! Keep it up great work.

I don't really get the name of the muscovite culture. Like, why would all those people call themselves that when moscow itself just started to be a politcal(Therefore cultural) force at that time. And as far as I know, there should be more Finno-Ugric people in that region, though I might be wrong.