Book of Mormon: Did the Book of Mormon Come from God, Man, or the Devil? (JST 33)

Thank you, dear brother.

That was well worth the time, and thank you for all of your hard work, study, and insight.

I've heard it, and I feel it, and I know it to be true. The Book of Mormon is there and has been provided to us by our Lord and Savior, and if the day is coming, then it will be undeniable. I wholeheartedly believe this and always left uplifted.

Thank you for this information!

SATANIST !

I definitely support your anti-Sith narrative. But I have trouble arguing against those who also quote Emma Smith and others. Why do you think Emma went along with the Sith narrative?

I'm grateful to believe Joseph Smith Jr . I discovered the book of Mormon after reading the New Testament and it was amazing, but after high school I stopped attending church and had serious problems, but I've dealt with most, and I'm really grateful for sobriety today, yet have a ways to go. It really is a constant tug of war, and I really like that analogy. I really hope to press forward through my challenges and put off the natural man.

JS charges for treasure digging with his stone in a hat, “finds” gold plates, mom has the idea to charge to see them, JS tries to get manuscript published to sell book, dad charges for patriarchal blessings. Started as money making turned into a religion.

The Book of Mormon is from God.

Make the case that the BOM will bring you closer to God than any other book

David Whitmer's eyewitness testimony is far from being the only evidence that historians take as indicative that Joseph Smith used a seer stone during the translation process. Martin Harris testified likewise, and his testimony was published in faithful publications such as The Millennial Star and The Historical Record. These testimonies were vetted and published by Edward Stevenson and Andrew Jenson; Stevenson having been a personal friend to the Prophet Joseph Smith, and Andrew Jenson a very knowledgable Church Historian.

Emma Smith was another firsthand eyewitness to the translation process, in fact acting as Joseph's scribe for a time. Her testimony should also be taken seriously, if we're treating Oliver Cowdery's testimony seriously, simply on the basis of him being a scribe. Many critics of the seer stone focus solely on Emma's 1879 interview, but in actuality, she wrote a private letter 9 years earlier, corroborating that after losing the 116 pages, Joseph "used a small stone, not exactly, black, but [it] was rather a dark color."

In addition to these testimonies, Oliver Cowdery's widow delivered Joseph Smith's seer stone to Phineas Young who subsequently took it to Utah, after which it was said by Heber C. Kimball that Brigham Young had obtained "the Urim and Thummim" (JD 2:111)—obviously not referring to the Nephite interpreters. Early Latter-day Saints typically referred to seer stones as a "Urim and Thummim."

One example of such interchangeable phraseology occurs in Wandle Mace's autobiography, wherein he recalls Joseph Smith himself having "pronounced [the Sameazer stones] to be a Urim and Thummim—as good as ever was upon the earth—but he said, 'They have been consecrated to devils.'" This shows that Joseph considered seer stones as being legitimate seeric instruments, but that notwithstanding their innate powers, they could have a good or evil use.

Brigham Young's Manuscript History recounts Joseph Smith teaching him that very principle, saying: "every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness, and most of those who do find one make an evil use of it; he showed us his seer stone."

Wilford Woodruff's diary entry under the same date (December 27, 1841) corroborates President Young's account, except that Woodruff refers to Joseph's stone as the Urim and Thummim: "The Twelve or a part of them spent the day with Joseph the Seer & he unfolded unto them many glorious things of the kingdom of God[,] the privileges & blessings of the priesthood &c. I had the privilege of seeing for the first time in my day the URIM & THUMMIM."

President Woodruff later consecrated Joseph's seer stone at the Manti Temple altar in 1888. Joseph Fielding Smith later acknowledged in his book "Doctrines of Salvation" that "the Urim and Thummim" which President Woodruff consecrated was none other than Joseph Smith's seer stone, which was "now in the possession of the Church."

Beyond these, we have faithful recollections from Oliver B. Huntington's diary, together with corroboratory statements published in the Juvenile Instructor, affirming that David Whitmer's and Martin Harris' testimonies were credible: "During the latter part of March, 1906, Father Lorin Farr of Ogden visited the Logan First Ward Sunday School and in the hearing of the writer [Joel Ricks] stated to the theological class that he had been a member of the Prophet's household between 1835 and 1840, and that during that time the subject of the manner of translating was often discussed in the family circle, and that it was always understood to be substantially as described above by [David] Whitmer and [Martin] Harris." (Juvenile Instructor, July 1, 1906)

"On the 6th of Feb. [1906] Elder Lorin Farr came to see me, as he usualy does whenever he is in Springville [...] Elder Farr stated then in the presence of my son Oliver and my son Dimick that he heard the Prophet say in substance what David Whitmer said upon the subject, as written in his life time. I heard the father of the Prophet relate substancialy the same particulars of the manner of translating, by Joseph, the Book of Mormon." (Oliver B. Huntington Diary, 1906-1907)

Lucy Mack Smith similarly testified regarding Joseph's mode of translating the Book of Abraham: "She [Lucy Mack Smith] said, that when Joseph was reading the papyrus, he closed his eyes, and held a hat over his face, and that the revelation came to him; and that where the papyrus was torn, he could read the parts that were destroyed equally as well as those that were there; and that scribes sat by him writing, as he expounded." (Friends' Weekly Intelligencer, October 3, 1846)

We need not wonder what Joseph placed in the hat, for Wilford Woodruff told us in his journal: "Truly the Lord has raised up Joseph the Seer of the seed of Abraham out of the loins of ancient Joseph, & is now clothing him with mighty power & wisdom & knowledge which is more clearly manifest & felt in the midst of his intimate friends than any other class of mankind. The Lord is Blessing Joseph with Power to reveal the mysteries of the kingdom of God; to translate through the urim & Thummim Ancient records & Hyeroglyphics as old as Abraham or Adam, which causes our hearts to burn within us while we behold their glorious truths opened unto us." (Wilford Woodruff's Journal, February 19, 1842)

Clearly, Elder Woodruff did not have the Nephite interpreters in mind here, for Joseph certainly no longer had them in his possession by 1842. If one compares this with the statement Woodruff made about Joseph's seer stone, just a few months earlier in his diary, we can see that Woodruff clearly was in the habit of referring to the Prophet's seer stone interchangeably as a Urim and Thummim.

The evidences that I've delineated so far merely scratch the surface of the overwhelming convergence of firsthand and secondhand testimony indicating that the Prophet Joseph Smith did indeed possess seer stones early in his life, and subsequently used them (together with the Nephite interpreters) during the translation of the Book of Mormon, and later for the translation of the Book of Abraham, along with possibly other scriptures. These evidences can (and have) filled up whole volumes, and there's a reason that both faithful, neutral, and critical historians have reached an overall consensus on this issue.

Anyone who is interested in a faithful perspective on the usage and significance of seer stones throughout the Restoration should read "Seers and Seer Stones" by Ogden Kraut.

When you consider the weight of first hand accounts, and I am speaking in terms of other historical narratives not relating to the book of Mormon, then you see great differences and discrepancies as well. For example, the narrative on polygamy is vastly different when you look at Joseph and Emma's narratives in contrast to Brigham and others narratives. Which are we going to believe?