J. Krishnamurti & David Bohm - Brockwood Park 1980 - The Ending of Time - Conversation 12

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The last 7 minutes contain the whole truth about the existence of ego, self, center… it is just a part of the energy or movement of the whole, stuck in the mind of the human body. That energy or movement is limited, closed in the individual mind, thus causing division, conflict and tons of human suffering. It is like an underground current flowing inside the ocean but thinking it is just a small stream, or like the total energy when creating the human and the brain, then when that total energy flows through the brain, the human mind, it immediately gets stuck, located and limited and stuck in the very thing it has created, and gradually it “forgets” its origin and creates division, bondage. When this whole movement stops (by realizing that it is moving but still limited to itself, in that oceanic flow or that divided mind) then it dissolves and merges into the whole energy or movement. Then it is the whole deep ocean, silent. It is the whole energy, motionless yet alive, moving yet unchanging. It is what, in its deepest depths, the whole of humanity has been searching for for millions of years.

Bohm asks if the brain is totally conditioned, how can it uncondition itself? Thought is limited (memory) therefore the conditioning, however strong, is also limited. Insight, whose source is not limited, must inevitably break through, surely? Is this the answer to Prof Bohm's question?
It is not an inconsistency then.

The supreme energy is what enables a mystic to do miraculous healing...

Excelente explicación!

Bohm & Huxley liked Krishnamurti very much.

Inspiring and brilliant conversation ❤️

Thank you 🙏❤️

Grazie ❤

Thought cannot communicate the other.Come to- lighthouse, Rishikesh- n u can get the light divine..actually.Very seriously.

I love these two men. They understand each other thoroughly.

Da quando ho scoperto questi preziosi dialoghi il mio entusiasmo di scoprire ilnuovo E' grande e nello stesso Tempo mi Libero dal conosciuto .....ho comprato il libro ,IL TEMPO FINISCE , NEL QUALE SONO RIPORTATI QUESTI DIALOGHI TRADOTTI IN ITALIANO ....COSI DA APPROFONDILI .....GRAZIEEEEEEEEEEE A TUTTI CHE COLLLABORANO SU QUESTO CANALE ❤😂❤❤

Manchmal ist weniger mehr😉 Einfach mit dem zufriedenen sein was man hat. Sich dessen bewusst werden das alles materielle und finanzielle ersetzbar ist. Was keiner ersetzen kann bist du.

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Спасибо.

I have to say that it is completely wrong what Bohm states in the beginning that the idea of enlightenment (that's what he is talking about although he doesn't use that word) is intrinsically connected with the concept of reincarnation. In esoteric traditions like Zen, Advaita , Dzogchen and no doubt many more it is clearly stated that enlightenment is a happening outside of time. Or rather a recognition since it's actually our intrinsic nature so it can happen to anyone at anytime. As the founder of Advaita Vedanta Adi Shankara clearly stated reincarnation is a concept that's only applicable at the relative level. Personally I feel this conversation would have been less muddled if it hasn't been for Krishnamurti's insistence on being original and independent and disregard all traditions - and all contemporary mystics. And his resistance to being seen as "spiritual". A notion that dr. Bohm apparently shares.

Homosapien vs.neanderthal

Thank you all for this most precious service to humanity

Hello and thank you all for sharing these vital new ways to try to understand and solve the difficulties and the absurdities of the human condition. I would like to know - if I may - what do you exactly mean with psychological knowledge? Thank you very much, my best wishes . Margherita from Italy, Padova

D.bohm really gets what K wants to explain exactly ....
" the wall itself is the product of the progress ,which is illusion ..."

thank you all , thanks soo much for these talks .

👌

Treasure the conversations
These 2 men had together

Can someone please let me know where do I go for all the talks under this specific series?… Or I will have to just scavenger hunt around to gather them all. I wish there was a central repository out there. Thanks in advance.

Is the danger the illusion of security? Is the accumulation process the structure of that illusion in both the psychological and physical realm?

Could it be that the INSIGHTs come from the power of human logic and "reasoning"...?....

"Perception is a part of love" K says....Do I have love in my heart?
Please, love me ...! Why don;t you love me?

when man evolved from primates and started to use thought as a tool to organize the outward world, he also brought that tool into the inward. bringing time and becoming into the psyche. thought is a divisive, limiting process. man began to accumulate inwardly for security and its been hell ever since. question is whether time, thought, becoming, etc are necessary inwardly. perhaps man took a wrong turn. lets go east

"So perception without any motive, without any direction.., perception of the wall which has been brought into being by man, by this movement of accumulation, the very perception of that is intelligence and love, right ?" - And snap

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Is it that 2 MEs are sharing the same tool? One body, one brain, one set of physical functions, as 5 senses ...?
Two MEs, the Real me (soul?) and the actual me, and unless the actual me that is conditioned by traditions, ideals, ideologies, faith and believes in the personal value system that has grown into the brain forming the illusory EGO, realizes and sits aside, the Real me being cannot come out of the cave and thus start bringing insights ... to fix things that are gone awkward ...?

K says, "If it's built in, we are hopeless."
Adam and Eve concept comes to mind....
Lazy mankind always look for the escape route, to make themselves feel comfy without striving, and try to find some blameworthy entity, instead ..? Never takes responsibility.

Communists found some blameworthy entities in capitalism, they didn't see themselves even worse in that matter, just material-wise, when they want some or all of what capitalists had built, while inside was burning with jealousy ...? .... Then, capitalists run the other way. they use communists' idea, to build up even more! More and more and more ... and have developed the way the world is now ... am I doing the same ? ...

"Why haven't they question about this "More" K asks.
Actually, there was an answer to this question: St. Augustine had come to a conclusion, like, "Until I come to realize You, God, there is no satisfaction."
So ....
And accumulation of knowledge ... "if you have knowledge about yourself, you have built up image of yourself" K says.
... Curse in duality of the facts ... may be this is what Augustine was and K is talking about ... Facts in reality and facts in actuality ....Where am I ...?

I see that being able to forget about the self is important part, to move on, in the line of humanity. The history has seen at the least one, who had done outwardly and inner, too perhaps. The Jungle Doctor Albert Schweitzer.

Dr. Schweitzer "declared" that he would live for himself to the age of 30, and then he would move on to live for others. And he did live his word. Non-accumulating self-knowledge would be the major asset, to move on, perhaps....
If Dr. Bohm started from that kind of freedom, not from the behind the wall of his major that has been making round and round within his textbooks, he could have changed the world entirely, backed by all the doctors and concerned world in attention, too.

Different sort of accumulation that could also become a burden ...

Juddi è veramente un essere speciale ha la grande capacità di aspettare, accettare, ricondurre, fantastico si ci arrivano insieme🦄🦋🙏

Hi. Are all 16 conversation available as podcast? Can’t seem to find them. Thank you.

Two geniuses love you my brother's

O my god. So beautiful. The ending.

Dr Bohm: Why does the mind continue to accumulate?
Krishnamurti should answer: because psychological accumulation creates the psychological existence ! In fact this existence is an illusion but it is the outcome of psychological accumulation. When there is no accumulation and therefore no time the "me" doesn't exist.

thank you.

aqui tem sabedoria...

What the brain really do is continously writing a diary of your life, and sending reports (have no idea if it sends report to "the cloud" somewhere, but it write an enourmous amounths of reports of what we do. Some of it is personal (sent to memory), some is some of it is syntax errors (prolly sent to cloud, so to fix the system, which prolly is a simulation, or god or godsystem). Many of the personal errors have its influence from society, but most is from stigma and such people have (which also indirectly comes from society (comercials, ideals etc)..A nice way to come through life with as litle problems and as much problems resolved (because of the limitations of mind/brain) is to throughout life write your own personal diaries (preferably detailed, so to improve your memory by reading it later and so on),,,but many dont do thism so in the future we might buy our own ai that can help us write this detailed diary of your life (as the system arent there to change your personal preferences, unless their unhealthy one's),,,one could say indirectly a human being is in reality a biological robot, a type of ai, just like we try to produce on the outside, where they use different approaches for learning on them. Me myself is a very analythical biological robotic human (Highly Analythical Intuitiv Artificial Intelligence (HAIAI))..Im a haiai ^^ ((just for fun nothing more))

Hello and thy for sharing. My question is, where are the other parts from this discussions? It starts by number 9 so where i can found the other 8 parts? Thank you <3

he reminds me of my grandma...

krishnamurti looks like a little school boy sitting there.