Are Too Many Wargames FRACTURING Wargaming?

Unc, can you tackle the recent trend about how companies like GW seem to be no longer publicly crediting their game designers, artists, and sculptors?

I don't think i've seen you do a video on that.

Relevance? Games like bolt action seem to have tenured industry folk behind em. Would it be ethical for GW to try to corner the future market by minimizing the relevance of the people who work on their games in the now?

I'm a rules junkie! I will buy rules just to read thru them and see what interesting new ideas/features they may have. I haven't played 90-95% of the rules I own more than 2x. I own at least 15 Napoleonic rulesets have only ever played 3 of them. I want to see new sets and new companies have a chance to put their ideas out so I/we can see them. Playing the same thing gets stale even if it is a good ruleset and there are some that are just awful but still have large followings.

I hope more wargames lead to hopefully better written rulebooks.

Theres always some comm1e that wants a centralized game authority.

Sir Atom, your games about gobbos and tanks are fantastic 💚🔥

It's just like the people who only ever play DnD. There are so many different PnP systems out there, and DnD is mid at best. If that was the only system people around me played, I would have stopped playing TTRPGs long ago.

'Central Authority' just sounds like the big bad faction in a necromunda-esque indie game

Okay, this is just my subjective interpretation of the debate, but one shaped by 25 years of experience as an enthusiast who plays, collects, and paints various miniature wargaming systems:

I believe some of the commentators arguing against brand diversity in our hobby haven’t been involved in the hobby for very long. Many seem to belong to a group of hobbyists who equate the hobby exclusively with Warhammer, rather than with miniature wargaming (or "tabletop", as we call it in German). Over time, I’ve noticed that especially newer members of the community tend to reduce the hobby far more to Warhammer compared to how it used to be. The term Warhammer is increasingly used not just as the umbrella term but almost as the sole relevant terminology to describe our entire hobby, while the broader term miniature wargaming is fading into the background.
This narrowing of focus obviously limits the perspective of newer hobbyists to this one brand or aspect of the hobby.

In addition, some people seem to frame Warhammer as an exclusive domain of nerd culture, using it to establish a kind of gatekeeping. This involves defining rules and criteria for who can be included or excluded from the hobby. Terms like "Wokehammer" are increasingly being thrown around on social media as part of a backlash against subjective perceived external changes to "our" nerd culture. However, this rhetoric often reveals an unwillingness to tolerate any interpretation of the hobby or the Warhammer brand/game/lore that doesn’t align with their(!) own.

For those who see themselves in that gatekeeping role, a pluralistic and diverse hobby is not a desirable outcome. The more inclusive and diverse the hobby becomes, the less leverage gatekeeping has as a social mechanism. This context, in my opinion, explains why the recent success of Trench Crusade has sparked such a backlash from a loud minority in our community. They attacked Trench Crusade explicitly because its creators positioned themselves in favor of an open and welcoming gaming culture.
This reaction from certain individuals aligns with their rejection of themes like "wokeness", inclusion, or even just a friendly and open gaming environment for all. These detractors seem to argue that having more games somehow threatens the hobby itself. However, I believe this argument is just a straw man and being used to undermine what could be described as the democratization of the hobby.

To be clear, this represents a minority of the community, but they are often the loudest voices. Their resistance to diversity in the hobby is, at its core, an attempt to preserve (or create) a version of the hobby that prioritizes exclusivity and control over accessibility and growth.

Bless you for having so much patience.

I think your comments are full of people who work for Games Workshop 😂

Sounds like a bunch of corporate undercover comments. We need more indi games I would love to see see the gw and wotc customers drop them and spread across the indi games..... Gw and wotc no longer care about gamers

Wait so more choice is bad???? If you don't want to play something don't buy it, if you have no one to play with then don't buy it.

We only have these comments because the miniature industry is already almost a monopoly from GW ! Any other market is plentyful with small indies which survive and that's great because there is something for everyone and it's easier than ever to find your public. Video Game industry, Music Industry, comic industry.

Isn't the end result of this logic that there should only be one game to exist?> not just wargames but games in general? if too many wargames is a bad thing, what about too many games of other genres? everyone should all play the same game forever 🧠

Didn't mention it but also the smaller indie games are usually where innovation and change comes from in the industry. Without smaller experimental games we wouldn't see those changes eventually bubble up to the big games.

I can imagine that dreary dark future... people sneaking into secret clubs with tablets and laptops purposely kept off the internet with copies of OPR on them... worries that the Popo will come in and enforce the Central Authority's decree that only Warhammer 40k is a legal game.

The people being against more game and variety are people that play GW games (and only the 2 or 3 most recent ones, not the old specialists ones). They are agressif to lose their edge and advantages over the game of they had to learn a new game system, and start a whole new collection from scratch. It's actually sunken cost fallacy more than any other logical reason.
And they are just wrong. Not because GW is a bad company and it's games are not perfect (it is a bad company and its games are far from perfect) but because those people think they are playing the best games, only because they don't have any other point of reference or comparison. They are completely ignorant (sometimes wilfully) to the other possibilities that exist out there, and frankly, almost "wargames' illiterate".
But they represent the most vocal group on social media, so they are more represented, and believe they are the majority...
More games (more choice actually) is always better.

A "GW Brain" question if there ever was one.

I think clearly the 'central authority' argument is stupid, that's not how capitalism works and entertainment is inherently capitalistic. But when I do HEMA I try to push people to do longsword, because it's the weapon everyone owns and knows how to fence with and it's the weapon you'll find the most events for. Every hobby has a flagship and if you deny that you're setting yourself up for failure. Doesn't matter how good a game is or how pretty its miniatures are if you can't find anyone to play it with you, and not being able to play anything is the quickest way to fall out of the hobby. That said, yeah companies can make whatever products they want, and consumers can buy whatever they want. I don't think Trench Crusade is going to actually survive for a year (hell I don't even know if it's out yet or if it has actual models available) but they're not evil for trying.

I love that most of these commenters kind of clearly are thinking Warhammer 40k, but wargaming started with historical games. So we'd all be moving little Napoleon men around

I think I am going to assembly a Human Inquisition team for Grimdark Future Firefight called the Central Authority!

Also: “Will they beat Tay-Tay? Signs point to ‘no.’” As the father of two Swifties, that made me whole day, Uncle Atom. Thank you for that.

"Good ideas and good execution is still pretty difficult." Amen, brother. I own a successful hex and counter wargame company (Flying Pig Games) and it ain't easy. But I'm all for 1. Competition. 2. Diversification. 3. The more diverse games made...the more new people that can enter the hobby (I guess that's just restating #2. Roll dice. Have fun.

There are tons of good wargames for sure. 40K just lets stores actually make money, pay their bills and maybe even sell the smaller games so more people learn about them. The reality is without the hugeness of Warhammer it would be incredibly difficult to even find other gamers or see the games that might make it to retail

What if the central authority… was you?

cue twilight zone music

A central authority in wargames would have all the success all other planned economies have had historically, severely curtailed production, unilateral reduction in quality control and stifled if not non-existent innovation. Yeah, no thank you, I will take all the indie efforts even knowing most of them will probably only have limited success if not fail.

I think I have around 35 different armies, for many different games, and only about 20 are GW. Give me all the options! I can make the decision on what I want to play for myself.

I grew up playing historical miniatures and going to historical gaming conventions with my dad and his group. I have been exposed to dozens of rule sets for just American Civil War, let alone Napoleonic, Ancients, American Revolution, Naval, WWII. All of which ,as a group, they played. Some were great, others not so much. But that never stopped other groups from playing the rule sets they liked. I introduce my friends to new rule sets I pick up, we try them out, and if they are fun we play it again. Its like most things in the world, find the thing that fits the style you want to play and have some fun.

As the designer of the independent skirmish game Cursed Lands: Morgulia I just wanted to say Thank You for this video! Far too often, we've found dedicated wargamers to be almost completely unwilling to even try something that they don't already play; game stores as well. The best luck we've had has always been with people entirely new to the hobby and unrelayed venues as they have no narrow vestes interest against the new experience.

for sure !

You are anoying, bad teaching voice

If there are 1000 games still the key is: best game is the one you enjoy the most. So no need to have somebody showing the right way.

Before I play a wargame I have to assemble and paint the stuff. If it wasnt for the small game Confrontation in the year 2003 I would never have bothered to pick up superglue.
Its not about having many games but having that one special game that beings someone into the hobby. But that necessitates many games

My biggest issue with the plethora of excellent games out there is that my time and finances have not grown as exponentially as the number of games available. I think a lot of folk's 'negative' opinions from a stance of FOMO and the fact that they've invested lots of money in a particular game (40K*cough*). Instead of being secure in their choice of toy soldiers, they'll poo poo on other options because they don't want to be 'wrong' or 'missing out' on something because they're already entrenched in one system.

Such a dumb arguement, if there was one game how would it work when people want to play with different themes? Sci fi fantasy historical gothic cyberpunk etc. how about simple vs complex?
Wargaming is great because there's a game for everyone

The number of games each person can actively engage in is limited by time and possibly money.

The customer base is small and unlikely to ever grow significantly, because the base concept of miniature wargaming appeals to a small minority of people.

More games being actively played by the same limited playerbase means each game has a smaller playerbase.

Its already bordering on impossible to get opportunities to play niche games.

But thats not a problem, being hard to find games of reduces the pull of a niche game, keeping it small, throttlingthe player base until it dies or fades to obscurity.

And who cares if a niche indie game dies? A tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of people.

Sounds like gate keepers

I definitely understand the sentiment of the commenters; I, too, feel overwhelmed by all the cool options and sweet models. I've also experienced difficulty finding players for the wargames I like, especially as many of the less popular groups died out during COVID; however, I agree that having a "Central Authority" for games or limiting the scope/amount of games is dumb and will lead to stagnation. I eagerly await the day that some other company overtakes GW for army sized wargaming.

I left GWS years ago and the thing that brought me back to wargaming was the indi skrimish. Got my self a 3d printer and now i have so many team i can play with friends or family becose. The rules a simpler and a game doesn t take half a day to complet win win win

Warmahordes is the best thing to GW. The competition really made gw step up their game in terms of both rules and community building.

My favorite game is Firestorm Armada. I live the lore, the minis, and the factions! To this day I've yet to play a battle against another person. Sometimes that's just how it goes.

"We need to prevent folks from forming groups of voluntary associates because they are a threat to unity, Comrade."

It can be better for the hobby for sure, however, it does make it very hard on those companies. Mini gaming takes a huge investment of time and space, more so than board and card games. Customers only have so much time, money, and space. So if your gonna make it, better make it really good!

Am I the only yahoo who isn't in an exclusive relationship with my war games?
Having lots of games doesn't mean less customers. Customers can play multiple game in the same time period.
GW is a big example of this, 40k universe has 5 games that I'm aware of. 40k, combat patrol, kill team, space hulk, and necromunda. Their fantasy has AoS, Old world, spearhead, warcry, underworld, and blood bowl.
That's 11 games from 1 developer. I seem to be missing the commenter point.

I personally don't understand the extreme Fandom to GW. Especially with how GW treats local gaming stores (LGS).
(And their fans by that extension)

I tried to play 40k years ago. The scale of it was hard to grasp, and the fact the only faction i liked at the time, the Tau, got discontinued after an edition change. Really turned me away from 40k.

If it wasn't for Battletech, I wouldn't be playing any War Games.
So no I don't think the market is fractured. Hell I think the Fandom might be too hyperfocused on a single game and some of those players might like some of these "Indy" games if they actually tried them.

I seriously enjoy your content sir.
Im dedicated to ASOIAF. I enjoy the game & painting the miniatures. You sir, greatly helped me find the painting fun & enjoyable.

Stopped 40k with 5th and never returned. But I still played and play many other TT games. AoS, Mordheim, Necromunda, Dystopian Wars, Black Seas, OPR to name a few. I like choice and diversity. It keeps the market fresh and exciting.

You think 40k is expensive now? How expensive would it be with no competition?

Maybe when that first commenter said 'central authority' he merely meant something like a publisher like avalon hill or SPI. People who could winnow out bad games so people new to the hobby were less likely to get a bad taste in their mouth after spending time and money..

I have been a GW purist for like 30 years. Just now as a 50-year-old man trying other games and man do I feel like I missed out. Games Workshop makes some of the best miniatures and worst games out there.

the only wargame I currently play is a home brew for 1/144 gundam models, and finding that has caused me to look at other wargames. what is a games workshop? (I'm kidding wh40k is just expensive)