Grand Design Frame Flex & NOW I-Beam defect visit! Round 2

Wow just Wow…..But not surprised….after following the Grand Design situation for several months! Very sad indeed that so many people who have invested so much in Their product and are being treated this way…..

Fifthwheels get dropped all the time
Due to bad latch at the king pin. Hitch dosent close all the way , the legs are raised and the driver pulls ahead. Boom dropped fifthwheel !!

Buddies 5th wheel got dropped at the dealer because they were moving it quick with a forklift. It was an arctic fox so no frame issue but it did damage 1 leg which was quickly repaired.

It is difficult to believe that your RV will ever have the structural integrity it was represented to have when you purchased it. Nevermind, what might happen if or when the bandaids fall off down the line . Your. primary concern, like ours, is the structural integrity and safety of your rig when you put your most precious cargo in it: your kids/family. (We are dealing with our own issues w GD.) It would be very beneficial if we obtained assistance from experts to accompany us on this nightmare of a journey. Then the teams would be even and we could make educated decisions based upon the facts and opinions of our own experts. That is where our focus should be: working together to accomplish this task. Then there is no wondering or guessing. We can know we are making informed decisions based upon the guidance and advice of experts. As a mom and grandma, I totally understand your perspective and your situation is heartbreaking.

Contact Cruising with the Carson's and/or Liz Amazing. There are levels to this & you need some guidance my friends

I really appreciate your detail and passion to get your answers and to get your repairs done on your home.

GD has now been trained on how to blame you and wear you down so that you give up and move on without them accepting any of the blame and without you getting any satisfaction on the repairs.

All you can do is to continue to do what you’re doing and fight for what ls right since you are supposedly family.

The defensive position will unfortunately fail for GD in the long term and karma will bite them at some point but what’s important now is that you get all you can while you can while you’re face to face with the mothership.

I pray all goes well the next few weeks and I hope the bandaids solves the issues long term so you guys can get back to enjoying your lives on the road.

Your videos are always so eye opening and helpful to all of us out here dealing with this GD nightmare.

I’m 100% sure you’re making a difference in the process for future family members so for that we thank you!!!

Keep up the pressure and stand for what you feel is right.

❤❤❤

If insurance companies total out a vehicle for a bent frame, why would GD try to fix it? This should be a no brainer and they should buy it back. I’d be a little leery purchasing a new GD after all this. I currently own a 2023 Reflection 337RLS and I’m worried that eventually I’ll be in the same boat as you and your family. I wish you the best and hope that GD will fess up and do what’s right for not only your family but others also.

Not sure how to fix the problem, I would think that it is an engineering issue. Seems like GD is the focus of many of the frame failures. Is that because GD sold more, or GD has chassis' that are not properly engineered for the trailer?

Either way, it sounds like GD is not taking the "do the right thing" path, unfortunately.

Agree with previous comment about getting an engineer's report that asses the integrity of the frame and frame repairs.

Also, may want to discuss with your insurance company about what is being done and if they will stand behind the policy in case of a future failure.

Just some thoughts.

Think back very hard over all your travels to the one point where you might have hit a larger than normal pothole and let your insurance company know that your frame bent at that point during that accident….. don’t ever look back at the crumbling pile of garbage that Grand Design built and sold you and replace it with a far superior coach . Continue your travels as your kiddos grow way too fast and along the way hopefully you can save just one other person from buying the subpar trash that Grand Design is, obviously.

the sad part is if they wern't so greedy and spent probably 100 bucks more in the build. This probably wouldn't happen.

I'm looking for a new camper= stay away from Grand design.

You guys need to talk to Liz Amazing. She’s awesome. ❤

You guys are great. Fully support. They need to take ownership of the issues and not be slinging crap back on the customer. They need to assemble a tiger team of experts to address these issues based on science and documented analysis. They should immediately construct a lodge or a campground with their show rigs to accomodate folks that are waiting for repairs—and/or institute a buy-back program. We did this when building manufacturing plants to house staff and their members and brought in cooks and cleaning staff. For 20 years Elkhart has been run like a sleazy used car hack job. They will not institute SOPs for defective products and they treat everyone different based on how loud you yell and scream and how educated they are. You should not have to appeal with your family circumstances to get shit done and to have them do the right thing. The fact that you felt compelled to do that is evidence of the wishy-washy discretion they have to screw you. I had to threaten them multiple times to get 50k in warranty work done (motorhome). My threats included constructing a billboard on the interstate (before social media). I was young and loud and nothing to lose. Someone is selling someone always—and there game is to sell anything where they don’t have to pay. These rigs are ONLY built to last the warranty period…. And don’t forget, they view their customer as the bank with the loan and not you. And they don’t care about you being a repeat customer — they just find the new market (suckers) that have a desire to rv and don’t know about the horrible past of these used car sale scum. Now that is not all manufacturers, but a good majority as they get gobbled up for profit and many of the staff and execs float from company to company—that’s where the ‘industry’ has a problem. They see this used car scum mentality as a winning play for profits and they get away with it. Keep fighting, keep getting loud!

It's really not that hard to figure out. Bad design, bad manufacturing, bad fifth Wheel
They're not your family. They're not your friends. They just want your money.

Our 22 390rkr is at the repair facility now and they are telling us they will not move forward with repairs until our insurance company is involved. We are having all the same issues you are!

We full time also and dropped ours off 5/22/24. They have done nothing on ours after telling us 3 weeks to repair

So sorry for your struggles with your rig. I have a Forest River 5th wheel that has the frame cracks very badly around the pin box. It is currently enroute to the factory in Indiana to be repaired. I will be following your story and pray your get a favorable resolution. The RV industry must step up and improve thier manufacturing processes to give us all a better product. Keep up the pressure!

Everything they are telling you is BS. Anyone who has done fabricating and welding can tell you that. It is a design/engineering problem. The "Fixes" will just transfer the load to an area that isn't designed to handle it and it will fail there.

We had a 2022 grand design imagine 2970 RL. We did not have any issues other than having to replace the skylight in the shower and fix small things-but who knows, glad we sold it before their reputation went down the toilet….We have a motor home now and will not ever buy a fifth wheel- I don’t care what brand it is.

Someone needs a metalologist to test guality of steel and grade. Also need to get a real engineer to look at specs🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸☦️

A business that sells products to you are not nor will they be part of your family and you will not be part of their organization. To make them understand your position has to be approached as two businesses coming to a agreement that both can live with. You cannot treat this as a personal family type of interaction. It needs to be a contractual obligation agreed upon by both parties. You need help from someone that knows what the fix should be and may need legal assistance as well. Before you sign off you may want outside inspections done and a lawyer to look at any papers that you are asked to sign. The money that it will cost you for assistance will be money well spent. I would not share personal information with them, they need to understand your expectations so you can cut the BS and move on to what is important such as when will it be dan, can you have a copy of the fix signed off by the engineer that recommended the repair. What warranty is included with the repairs. Pictures so you can compare the frame in the future for damage. Remember your are not family, and handshakes will not get the job done. Keep a cool head but do it in a business manner. Don't get mad keep it clear your expectations and track progress daily. Let the know you are serious on getting back on the road and out of their hair.
Ray

Do not give up on your morals because you are teaching your children a valuable lesson. I commend both of you. On another point fuck Grand Design and Happy Birthday

We are feeling your pain. Our Rig is still in the shop. Just patiently waiting. LOL! Thank you for sharing the information about your repairs. Good luck! --Jen

IMHO your best hope is that enough Grand Design customers will come together in a class action suit, but thanks for sharing. I hope anyone considering a GD will first watch your videos (and others). I think you need an exit strategy. Get it fixed and honestly try to sell it. Crap happens in life - we just lost a 4 year old vehicle, roof, part of a fence to a tornado.

This is awful you guys :( Definitely gives me pause when thinking about a new RV purchase! It’s one thing to have problems, but to not stand behind you product?!

Happy Birthday sweet girl! Hope you guys get it all worked out. Maybe they just need to give you all a brand new one, with new design. Sorry you all are going through this, the nicest family on the planet don't deserve this!

Jesus what a disaster. Ppl need to start a class action against GD and Lippert. I will never consider that brand and I hope they go bankrupt. Wish you the best.

Sorry for all the issues. This was horrible, to actually blame you in any way shape or form. If they thought you dropped it, they would never fix it. They fixed it because they know they have a problem. My concern is, how will they straighten the I-beam? When they straighten it, could it compromise the strength? I'd require them to use a little more technical approach like using some kind of laser to check for how straight it is. If both I-beams aren't straight you might end up with new issues like tire wear etc. I'd request a buy back. You will not have any value left to trade it in or sell it. If you went to sell it would you disclose what has been done? I'd get them to put everything in writing, that's the least they should do to make you at least feel better. You said they were going to eye ball the I-beam to see if it's straight, are you kidding me. I'd almost want to talk to someone regarding the integrity of an I-beam that's been straightened out. Is it just as strong as a new one, if not, they need to do a buy back. Do not let them play the game that they are doing you a solid by fixing this. They are doing it ONLY because they know it's their issue. Hang in there, you guys are more patient then I'd be. Good luck. You might also watch the channel Crusin with the Carsons if you haven't already.

Did you ever leave your rig with a dealership for service? Dealerships usually use forklifts to move these trailers from the drop off location on their property back to the service bays. They lift up the unit without adjusting the front legs so setting it down hard, or even dropping it while moving it, could cause the damage you see now. This is where your drop would most likely happen. The service tech who dropped your unit would likely never admit such a mistake as it would jeopardize their job. An unscrupulous dealership would never tell you they had dropped your trailer as the liability would be costly for totaling a customer’s unit.

Our rv has dropped before, but it was landing gear failure and it was covered by KZ warranty.

Do a standard root-cause exercise with them. Start with your first question, "How did this happen?", When they answer that question, ask "Why did THAT happen?", and repeat this 3 to 4 more times. This should get you to the 1) root cause of the failure, or 2) you will find out that they don't know.

You can't repair the twisted I beams back to "normal". They are twisted and have induced stress in them now. There is no good way to get them back straight at this point. That is why an insurance company would total it. All these fixes are "bandaids" that won't last. Even if they could "fix" your rig, your resale value is trashed so when you go to sell it or trade it you will get pennies on the dollar. Fight for a buy back and use safety as the reason. Threaten to get an attorney to represent you if you don't get the buy back. Keep focusing on saftey....

Grand design = 💩

Also, you might reach out to Liz Amazing. She seems to be knocking down a few doors.
There should be a class action lawsuit filed against Lippert for sure.

They modified the wall plates that weakens the plate... Voids warrenties and no engineering company is going to allow that... Visually comfirming elengnment is not industry standard... They make levels and measuring tools for this because human eyes can be faulty... This should all have been fixed under warranty...

I really hope that after all this, you can have a safe towable rig that you can enjoy going forward. Fingers crossed for you.

Lawyer up!

Unfortunately your rig will never be back to when you first got it. Once a frame is bent it's always going to be diminished from all the people I've spoken with. It almost has to have a full frame replacement. You may want to look into selling private party to someone looking to part out the unit or keep it parked in one spot.

25 years of camping with my fifth wheel and have never dropped it. And yes I’m talking about a 1999 rig that’s still going strong. Carri Lite 528RK

I didn’t read all comments, but it is no surprise that a major corporation will angle to assign blame elsewhere. That is typical corporate loss management techniques. Unfortunately, on an individual basis, cannot be proven either way, and an arbitrator or even a court just needs a hint of doubt... That said, you just have to stand your ground and be firm but not obnoxious IMO. Traveled this road well before you. Do NOT get me wrong, no defense for GD or Lippert here. Im very critical because I have been through this before this spotlighting. There are some really good folks at GD, but also some that are not and they are not handling any of this with the consumer first.

Dropping a 5er... Well, happens all the time, and I have seen it more since the pandemic boom and huge influx into the RV subculture after it was mainstreamed. Many miss the step of locking the jaws and not doing a tug test! I have been at dealers and at the FSC where a unit being towed by the fork truck hops the ball and lands hard on the front gear. Heck, I saw a unit drop and skid a little more than 20 feet on its front gear just 3 weeks ago while picking up parts from a dealer - brand new unit too. Bet not in any of those cases was it revealed that it happened. I have also watched those inexperienced with the articulation of tow vehicle-to-camper bury a front jack, drag the rear jacks or hitch, and even rip open the rear wall. Hate to say it, but I know a very experienced RVing couple that forgot to raise the manual extension on their curbside front gear two years ago and it caught a speed bump at just 10mph and totaled the coach because it did truly bend the frame rail. It's all possible, but as I commented on your last video, my opinion is that your frame rail tweak came about from the whole of your coach's problem.

Again, I think you're getting some runaround, and it sounds to me like you had this misfortune of meeting Mel Williams. If that is who you got the different attitude from, it would explain it right there. He's supposed to be retiring, and you should just go directly around him in any and EVERY event!

Being an actual licensed and practicing engineer, I have a different perspective. It's really no big deal to bring the frame rail back to vertical and brace it. I had a very similar problem repaired. Regardless, Lippert will actually measure. They visually read measuring tapes and compare by eye string and laser lines, but they don't just eyeball it and say "close enough". Again, speaking from experience.

Here is my reality, I have had as severe and more problems with my GD. Mine is a pre-pandemic build too. I personally rebuilt and reinforced the suspension after is failed early on and recovered my costs as much as possible. The FSC, SRT, and Lippert mobile did most of the major repairs after that and haven't had reoccurence from those. Lippert covered frame repairs at the specialty shop of my choosing and all to my satisfaction. No issue in the past two years and >20k miles. That said, just did a major self repairs of the kitchen slide because of the weight causing the rollers to wear through the slide bottom. Just repaired another cold weld on the Lippert frame (I am a certifed welder, welding engineer, and instructor), and am repairing more cabinetry that's come apart. Point being, a modern RV has as much maintenance and repair as both a sticks n bricks and vehicle combined! I have had more than a dozen RVs before this one, and none had issues like today's have.

My 2022 Keystone Alpine 3790FK frame failed in only 5 months. Both 12" I-beams bent at the axles over 6". It was so bad I could no longer tow it. I had to abandon it in Illinois. Keystone refused to honor the warranty claiming that it had to be my fault. They claimed that I had to have been hit. There was no outside body damage, so they then claimed that I had to have been hit at axle level. I lost over $15k. Now I have an Alliance Paradigm 340RL.

I would definitely work to find a competent lawyer I believe in the end you will need it. Further, I am sure you are aware that many RV dealers are not willing to take these units in as a trade in for another RV. This alone raises the need for a lawyer and the lemon law action.

I have a picture of my 2021 momentum toy hauler when it was sitting on the dealers lot. The front hydraulic jacks are not straight. Both are outward. So, that story of you must have dropped it is not true. At least on my trailer.

Grand Design’s prognosis: maybe it will scab over and heal up.

Stop and take a deep breath. Things will be alright in the long run with life. Go see a lawyer, which there is probably someone by now doing quite a few of these lawsuits now, and see what they say you should be doing.

I think Lippert is the main issue here it's not the first time I've heard of a Lippert frame failing. It wasn't long ago that I heard of the tongues breaking on the bumper tow units.

The founders split, and some went on to start alliance.

Get in touch with Paving New Paths. They have had the same issues. PS nice meeting you both last month on top of Wolf Creek Pass.