Near Midair? F/A-18s vs Cessna Citation at Austin

Wow seeing this on one of my fav channels is crazy. A little clarification.. I had limited ADSB data to go with on top of literally just learning animation for this video. I'm not 100% satisfied with the depiction and accuracy. The altitudes when they descended and crossed could’ve been off anywhere between 2-300ft. I’m sure the flight didn't stay joined at the break as seen in the video. The last picture was of a generic image not from this incident.

JAG investigation coming, sorry for Snake 22

This video seems especially prescient after AA5342.

It just seems like in both cases the military pilots call out traffic in sight reflexively without actually acquiring the traffic. Just get ATC off their back and then continue flying and try to locate traffic.

I love the analytical videos about conversations between pilots and ATC. Really gives people a chance to learn how to be a mature adult when people point out which parts of the conversation were necessary and which go into unprofessional territory in a cockpit.

Mixing military jets, especially fighters and civil aviation, is not a good thing. Been there done that. Can get sporty. Civil pilots are not made of the same cloth

Pure military ego at play here. When flying in the civilian airspace, they should follow civilian protocols. I hope they hot their ears pinned back.

If posse comitatus limits the powers of the federal government to use the military to enforce it's so called law or policies then in The same Spirit why is the military permitted to fly in and out of anywhere or operate in civilian airspace?

How about military just remain in their own airspace and remain in their own op areas.

Bag 4 not a cargo pod?

Honestly its mostly on the controller here. Execjet dude was a douche wishing he could fly an f/a18 and the fighter pilot was a lil overzealous in his maneuvers. Fighter asked for clearance and was granted it, now everyone wants to get upsetty spaghetti about it.

Your conclusion -- well said.

You know how I know the Citation pilot wasn't a douchebag about it?

Because my response, if I was in his shoes, would have been to tell all involved to f-off.

That pilot's response was extremely tame and, quite frankly, less than what he was entitled to.

Cool calm and collected — Good man to be making regulations — and legislation generally.

Different, yet eerily similar scenario to what happened to the PSA CRJ700 at DCA on 01/29/25, luckily no collision in this instance!

Couldn't help but think of this event when I heard about the tragedy in DC.
Details are obviously very different but it feels like there may have been some similar problems.

Wow --- Just seeing this for the first time.
Last night there was the air to air collision of the helicopter and the regional jet over the Potomac. No survivors.
Helo was at low altitude (400 ft?) crossing the approach path to Reagan Airport. The jet is doing an ILS approach.
The helo was supposed to maintain "visual separation" and cross behind the jet. Instead they collided.
According to news reports, this crossing of the approach path is a "normal thing" as the US Army has a training squadron based nearby.
The circumstances seem all too similar. Military pilots doing "their normal thing", commercial aircraft on ILS approach, lots of traffic, tower's busy, and a misunderstanding.
Why has this not been looked at?

Edit: new information released that the mandated altitude for the helo in this area is 200 feet!!!! This helo was at 350 - 400!!!!
That pretty much pins the tail on the donkey!!!

SNAKE21 was relying on their "shit hotness" and surprised work a day pilots are not amused.

F18s at fault really, behind the citation, in sight, citation eyes fixed for the landing.....come on Fighters sloppy work. Thanks Mover!

defending these guys is a bad look

Totally unsafe flying by F-18s. What if it wasnt a Cessna but 737 on approach? Would it be alright for civilian pilot to tolerate that hothead BS from Hornet pilots and not to be a douche while having 200 souls in the back? If they misunderstood something or were unsure about directions given, you can always ask tower to repeat. Yes, I understand that Cessna pilot should act as a professional, land the plane and then deal with the problem. However, civilian pilots are not trained to deal with stuff like this, because an outburst of anger is reasonable reaction here. This is 100% situation of two mavericks doing their stuff and it's them not being a professional. You're not in combat zone, nor you're at your carrier or military airfield. You're just another plane, be patient and wait your turn to land.

Honestly, these guys should be reprimanded and have their next six months of leave cancelled for the unsafe flying. They should also have their pay docked for wasting the taxpayers’ money burning a bunch of fuel to show off.

The pilots probably should have taken avoiding action, but it looks like the controller gave incompatible clearances which put three planes in unsafe proximity in his airspace.

I am wondering how many people that comment on these kinds of vids actually know anything and how many just like to watch aviation and military vids and think that means that they know something that they don't?

i can tell this really irked you on all three parties involved.... im ded

austin... does NOT surprise me at all.

Right!

I take extreme exception to the phrase "mishap". If the jet jerk offs had flown into the Citation it would have been a Deadly CRASH. A crash as a result of deliberate actions taken by incompetent pilots who were given a deadly weapon. After the break they should have been told to land at their alternate destination, you're not allowed to land here.

I disagree with your comments about the asap. He’s well with in his rights. He did nothing wrong. Not sure why you made them comments.

Just my humble thought but atc should have landed the fast movers first then the whole situation wouldnt have happend.

I think you misread the ASAP comment. While he was clearly irritated, EJA699 advised he was going to file an ASAP as a professional kindness to the SNAKE21 flight so that they could file their own paperwork. He was likely assuming the military also has their own ASAP type paperwork and in the civilian world if one airplane files, the other one needs to file as well to gain protection for themselves from any FAA action.

Surely military aircraft when operating and communicating with a civil airport should do so in terms and language used every day by that civil airport not use military terms which are not used by that civil airport and expect to fly a standard short final not come in break and then cut in The line for landing causing all sorts of uncertainty and dangers pretty much if you’re going to civilian airport, you do an act as you are if you were a civilian aircraft in the way you communicate to the tower and fly your approach. Don’t treat it as a bloody boat in the middle of the ocean.

Did I have him in sight though... that nose is long and somewhat obstructive in the forward underneath area...

Here's a radical idea, maybe there should be more civilian authority over military aircraft where they're operating in civilian airspace.

Why not just go to Lackland AFB?

Dude- military doesn’t know how to communicate. I deal with these guys all of the time and have trained them in the civilian world. So annoying bro. Speak the language or stick to hanging out at the base.

Is there really a real reason for these fighters to do this airshow BS?
I don't believe their reason to do this kind of hotshot maneuvering in a civilian traffic pattern area, especially with commercial and private aviation airplanes operating there.

how do you not agree with the citation pilot when the hornets could have very well caused a lethal collision because they want to show off?

Simulcast in the US has got to be one of the most confusing things for me as a pilot sometimes. My local TRACON is a group of 3 Class C airspaces that are controlled by a single controller, and so many times there will be an aircraft on the frequency of the class C adjacent to my location, and I'll never hear them on the radio, especially if the controller gives them a late frequency change. Also it's really annoying when I mic up for a request on what I think is a clear freq, meanwhile the controller is getting two or three calls at the same time and they say "multiple aircraft calling". The FAA needs to just repeat all RX messages on all freqs. The controller can only respond to one at a time, and meanwhile I won't be stepping on another pilot unknowingly, and the guy 10nm in front of me that's on the other freq because they're still in the adjacent C I can still hear.

How is it possible that the Cessna Citation was wrong and being a douche? He was cleared to land!!!!!!!!! Go do your "Shit Hot Break" somewhere else!

EJA699 is right for filing an ASAP. A 200 - 350 ft. separation, and at that speed. Insane. F- 18 fighter jets Snake 21 had EJA99 in sight and disregarded proper flight just to do some hot dogging, and frightened a civilian in the process who follows protocol. I would be mad too. I appreciate our military aviators, big fan, but this was wrong. Isn't a close call between civilian aircraft 1,000 ft or close to that? I've seen report of a close call of two airliners as such or near that.

the navy descends due to the fact of the way that the carrier landing works.

SNAFU

I understand the reason for the break, but maybe they should stick to doing those where it's needed and practice them with military fields. Nobody in central Texas is going to shoot at them if they land like everyone else.

Twr F’ed it up from the start. They were going to merge at the 90 w the corp jet. Then Snake F’ed it up. There’s a time for a fun 500’ carrier break and w the corp jet in their way, maybe not the time.

When acquiring hours to improve my usaf UPT application, another aircraft was performing a teardrop entry while we were turning our downwind (uncontrolled airport). We communicated the conflicting situation (traffic already in pattern having right of way) and that we had them in sight to please let us know when they see us. They were forced to do a 360 without entering the pattern which made them really angry over the radio trying to argue about whatever. We simply ignored them, landed the plane and left. Some people don’t understand what it means to be professional over the radios. I absolutely understand what you mean by “deal with it on the ground”

The military does have a higher risk and casualty tolerance, and it's necessary for them to be that way. So the answer is that they should be kept separate from civilian traffic as much as possible.

Mover- Would the USMC jets get in a big-time jam with their command on that? How is that handled? Thank you Sir.

That was a weird bag config, why pylon 6 open? That would take some heavy ail trim!

Seems like Austin keeps popping up in these incident videos. Makes me want to avoid this airport.