DEBATE: Trinity vs. Tawheed (Dr. James White vs. Jake Brancatella)

James White is holding a self-defeating position. He is trying to put forth a logical argument claiming that logic (philosophy) is below scripture. You cannot use a logical argument to argue against logic. This is a self-defeating position.

Logic and scripture must go hand in hand. We use logic to understand scripture. If logic can be dismissed then why not just accept all scriptures??? If logic is dismissed then anything can be true!!! All religions could then be true. James white recognizes contradictions and rejects one scripture for another, hence he is using logic.

James is using logic up until we ask him for a logical argument for the trinity. He knows that mystics never come to such a conclusion. All mystics including the great Issac Newton, who rejected the trinity on his death bed, come to conclude that God is One.

His belief in the trinity is solely based on unknown greek authors who have a long history of trinitarian religion. (Zeus, Apollo and Athena).

Christians stope playing with your lives what James said doesn't make any sense in fact he's even running from answering the questions Jake post him because the trinity is confusing.

I honestly have no idea what Dr, James is saying..... the trinity is impossible to understand let alone explain

It seems as Christian’s are stuck with a denial mindset. If all the three entities are one. Why is it called trinity? Why not unity?

They will see cause there are three entities, then according to that god is not one. Make a choice to defend period.

Jake is on another Level, this brother is in Heavy weigth class when comes to Tawheed vs Trinity

Human invented the trinity and yet Human cannot explain it 😂

Nailed it

Wow!! talking about James White getting cooked.

Dr White has been proved wrong by so many muslims in debates before....and he still doesnt get it! ”indeed, its not eyes that are blind but the heart..” Quran 22:46. May Allah help him

'the questions you are asking produce an answer that go against what i believe, so they are irrelevant." -James White

1 hour and 50 minutes of James White eating up his own words 😂

Mr.Smith howcome you soo confident about the trinity , root problem is your bible is in anonymous nobody sure who write the bible

James White has perfected his way of making jokes to distract from the debate, he focuses on speaking around a point instead of addressing quite logical and plain statements, and more than often relies on his own made up terms, such as "same standards". he also makes up his own interpretation of plain English words and has between different debates contradict himself.

it bothers me when white says that resurrection was historical event he is telling us you guys are stupid . No historian believe that

True logic and scripture should go hand in hand , but that’s the rub right , James white , Matt slick use philosophical terms and phrases that go beyond logic just to push their apologetics yet it’s us right the layman we can’t possibly understand.

If I had a dime for every time James White butchers the Bible, or says something illogical, I would be a billionaire🤣

enjoyed this one

MashAllah your patience and style of delivering speech rival the best dawah speakers. Keep it up Jake. Speak truth even if it's against yourself

Christians wake up before it to late life is short Death are real and Hellfire are true.....God is only one.... avoid Hellfire punishment 😊

James white said islam is theologically inconsistent with the old testament but if you ask any Jew or any scholar of Torah, he will say that doctrine of trinity, incarnation, blood sacrifice by man are absolutely forbidden in Torah and every Jew scholar will say that islam is absolutely theologically consistent with the Torah. Nowhere in the Torah there is concept that man can ever be god. Nowhere there is concept that Messiah will be god. All lies.

Bald guy lies

Bald guys lies
The quran statements are precise and enough and there is wisdom behind every word.
Bald guy lies against Allah saying allah doesn’t know trinity ? Allah knows your arguments thats why he exposed it. Arrogant bald guy

I compiled this information and I'm going to spam it everywhere AND I pray Muslims catch on to these truths, lets hold trinitarians accountable "together ".

             Unitarian❤Tahwid

Dr White does not want to choose a definition for the terminologies, so that he can't be boxed in. In the process he made a fool of himself & the whole Christian nation. It was funny to watch 😂😂😂

Wow jake awesome

I listened to jake clear acedemic presentation then i fell asleep because i felt like i was in Sunday Church.
Anyway always appreciate these debates.

Cool debate. Got me to think more about Trinity and how to explain that vs polytheism. Basically, Trinity is one God, one mind. Polytheism is multiple gods, each has mind of its own.

A new baby deceiver like his god the best of the deceivers 🤯🤯🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️

Jake Brancatella is a dumbass.

If we take the doctrine of the Trinitarians and cite that God absorbed the sins of Man, then they would indicate that God is a sinner through absorption?

Also, if Point A communicates with point B and point C then you have 3 distinct points of communication. If it were only 1 point of communication then you would have reverb.

Every Christian speaker that i heard speak about trinity takes me in along curves and turns to go no where basically.

Calvanism is a Christian heresy.

James.: I'm being clear. Persons and being cannot be explained.

Then goes on to use those words freely.

James keeps on giving long winded Circular arguements.

In his final speech he states the being and persons cannot be comparable to the human analogies. But where is the proof of this.

Why is it that the trinity is explained by words we cannot define because of "divine revelation". Yet trying to understand it with "divine revelation" is too confusing so you have to rely on faith in the unknown.

I say "divine revelation" because in no way is the Bible divine revelation.

Islam and its beliefs are so simple for our limited minds which is the most logical and consistent understanding of Allah (God) it has to be the truth.

I'm sorry James. You lost the debate.

I am neither Jewish, Christian or Muslim. I am a Monotheist.

أَيْنَ اللهُ؟ قَالَتْ: فِي السَّمَاءِ
A slave woman was asked by the Messenger of Allah pbuh: "Where is Allah?", she replied: "in heaven". Saheeh hadeeth which can be found online.

It is impossible for anyone to comprehend the nature of Allah unless they cross the line of ascension.
The line of ascension is the boundary between the realm of servitude, and the realm of ascension.
A god is someone or something that has crossed the line of ascension. But the correct term to use is Ascended Being.
The paradoxical gap between finite and infinite, is what limits us from comprehending the realm of ascension, as well as the greatness of Allah Himself. We cannot count past infinite, because we are mortals within the realm of finite.

Infinity is a category, not a quantity, and likewise the same goes for Finite. Allah's greatness and power can be measured in quantities. However, those quantities are infinite. Because we cannot measure or comprehend infinite quantities, we cannot truly comprehend the greatness and vastness of the Lord Himself. The closest anyone can get to is to the Lote Tree of the Utmost Boundary, beyond which growth of faith in Allah is inversely proportional to the level a person delves into the beyondness (past the lote tree of the utmost boundary).
When contemplating on the greatness of Allah from the perspective of the realm of servitude, Allah seems to be shapeless and formless and imageless. But the truth is that He exists outside this realm. This is something that most muslims will reject.

He exists within the realm of ascension, and occupies a different space and time. The laws of science are consistent throughout the realms, the only difference is that one is finite, and the other is infinity.
روى البخاري (6227) ومسلم (2841) عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ عَنْ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : خَلَقَ اللَّهُ آدَمَ عَلَى صُورَتِهِ
Bukhari 6227 and Muslim 2841: Allah created Adam in His Own Image

(كَانَ فِي عَمَاءٍ، مَا تَحْتَهُ هَوَاءٌ، وَمَا فَوْقَهُ هَوَاءٌ، ثُمَّ خَلَقَ عَرْشَهُ عَلَى الْمَاءِ).
Musnad Ahmed 26/108, and Tirmidhi 3109, and Ibn Majah 182: The prophet pbuh said when asked where Allah was before He created His creation: "He was in the clouds, above which was void and below which was void, then He created the Throne upon the water".

The true purpose of preferring and creating humanity in His own Image and Likeness, was so that He could be with them and live among them, but could not do so, due to the gap between infinity and finite. That is why He will replace the existing heavens and earth with their new counterparts. The current heavens and earth are finite, but the new ones will be infinite. Only a few selected individuals from among entire humanity will be excluded from the tests of life and death, live with Allah in the Realm of Ascension, and they not be His slaves, but rather, His People. That is the kingdom of Allah. The rest of humanity will either be in Hell or Paradise.

The realm of Ascension is where His Throne is above the waters, and His Footstool, and His Pen, His Book, the Scales. It is a cloud kingdom, the Kingdom of Heaven, the Kingdom of Allah.
هَلْ يَنظُرُونَ إِلَّا أَن يَأْتِيَهُمُ اللَّهُ فِي ظُلَلٍ مِّنَ الْغَمَامِ وَالْمَلَائِكَةُ وَقُضِيَ الْأَمْرُ
"Do they await but that Allah should come to them in covers of clouds and the angels [as well] and the matter is [then] decided?And to Allah [all] matters are returned" [Quran: 2:210]
The Quran testifies that Allah will descend on the day of judgement in shades of clouds.

وانشقت السماء فهي يومئذ واهية
"The sky will be so torn that it will be frail" [quran 69:16]
يَوْمَ تُبَدَّلُ الْأَرْضُ غَيْرَ الْأَرْضِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ
"The day when the earth will be replaced by a new earth, as well as the heavens" [quran 14:48]

روى البخاري (4830) عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ: ( خَلَقَ اللَّهُ الخَلْقَ، فَلَمَّا فَرَغَ مِنْهُ قَامَتِ الرَّحِمُ، فَأَخَذَتْ بِحَقْوِ الرَّحْمَنِ، فَقَالَ لَهُ: مَهْ، قَالَتْ: هَذَا مَقَامُ العَائِذِ بِكَ مِنَ القَطِيعَةِ، قَالَ: أَلاَ تَرْضَيْنَ أَنْ أَصِلَ مَنْ وَصَلَكِ، وَأَقْطَعَ مَنْ قَطَعَكِ، قَالَتْ: بَلَى يَا رَبِّ، قَالَ: فَذَاكِ )
Bukhari (4830) on the authority of Abu Huraira, The Prophet pbuh said: Allah created His creation, and when He was done with creating it, the ties of kinship stood up and grabbed the Haqw of Allah (haqw i.e. knot from the middle of the waist) and Allah said: "What is it?". The ties of kinship said: "This is the place of the one who seeks refuge with you from being cut off". He said to the ties of kinship: "Will you be content if I keep ties with one who keeps ties with you, and cut off ties with one who cuts off ties with you?". The ties of kinship said: "Yes my Lord". He said: "So it is for you".

In many other narrations, it is mentioned that Allah has a Ridaa and a Izaar, and these are not symbolic, but literal. He has fashioned mankind according to His own Image, and to Him belongs the most honourable Image. The Ihram which muslims wear, is the clothing of Allah Himself. Further signifies the likeness of Humanity with Allah's own Image. You've always wanted to know your Lord. Here, I've told you. Very few special individuals have the capacity to reflect and understand this, muslim or not, and only they will get to live with Him in His Realm.
The statement of monotheism (There is no god worthy of worship except Allah) does not negate the possibility of there being other gods. There can be other gods. Rather, the statement of monotheism points towards the exclusivity of Allah's worthiness of worship. All of the Muslims have misunderstood their religion, regardless of whatever sect they belong to, be it a Sufi, Shia, Salafi/Wahhabite, Ashari/Maturidi, ... etc.

[3] The misconceptions about God in Islam
Muslims often refrain from contemplating on God, imagining Him or even describing God with physical attributes. They view it as heresy or blasphemy and label the person who does it as a ‘Mushrik’ or even a disbeliever. Scholars included. All the Islamic Scholars of the past have misunderstood God.
الرحمن على العرش استوى
“The Most Merciful Ascended to the Throne”
The Quran testifies to the fact that Allah ascended upon His Throne, and is seated on it. However, the muslim scholars have forbidden muslims from affirming that Allah sits or is seated, or from using such terminology. But the truth is that the Islamic prophetic narrations testify that Allah created humanity in His Own Image: خلق الله آدم على صورته (“God created Adam in His Own Image”).
Many muslims in this day and age also negate and deny the physical form of God, and in fact ascribe formlessness and imagelessness to Him, that exists without a shape, image, and without occupying space and time. They have deluded themselves by thinking in such a manner. In the prophetic narrations it is also mentioned that God has clothing, that He has an Izar and Ridaa (Upper and Lower Garment). But the muslims deny this and distort the meaning of those hadiths that describe God, and also deny the fact that Humanity is in God’s likeness and Image.
The Reality is the Allah has a glorified body, He is physical. He also has a spirit, His Holy Spirit, by which His presence is felt everywhere.

[4] The misconceptions about God in Christianity
1) The Father – Referring to Almighty God/Jehova/Allah
2) The Son – Referring to a servant of God
3) The Holy Spirit – Referring to the holy spirit of God. Every living thing has two components: Body and Spirit. Allah has a glorified body by which He resides in Heaven, and He has a Spirit, by which His presence is felt everywhere.
All three components in the Holy Trinity are distinct and separate from one another. The Father is the One who is Worthy of Worship, and He can speak directly through a servant of His through His Holy Spirit. When someone is aided by the Holy Spirit, it means that God speaks through that individual. Being a son of God is a title which is earned or given by God, not the literal offspring of God, because God does not beget, and nor was He begotten.
Christians have wrongfully focused all of their attention on Jesus Christ, even though Jesus Christ pointed towards the worship of the Almighty Father. All beings exist in Body and Spirit.

Three can never become or is one .. i love you brother Jake .. thanks for Islam thats easy to underatand

Praised to God for the blessing of the easy and logical concept of Tawheed

It's plain from the comments which side fan boys jumped to post the same opinion.

Is this guy saying that Trinity is true because Bible says Trinity is true and we should just assume Bible is true? Seriously? what the heck?
Yeah then Trinity is false because Quran says Trinity is false and we should just assume Quran is true. (not to mention the fact that Quran can actually be proven to be true).

Good jod our muslim brother keep it up

Quran is addressing all trinity Cristians just dont get it thick

Iff you fellow james you'll notice he contradict himself in different debates hopes people wouldn't notice

Jame argument facts are not really relevant its faith that matters

Without any regard for the outcome this debate was very classy and a good example of what interfaith dialogue should look like. I hope to see more such discussions so that people can develop a better understanding of each other and their beliefs.

The Truth will always prevail ❤
Jake's reasoning is very convincing

Thank God I am a Muslim, other wise I would be not able to do what Christians go through mental , gymnastics about who is their, God? For me four verses of Quran sufficient for us and it eliminates any disagreement. Read them below with explanation.

Say, "He is God, the One God *. The Self-sufficient One. * He does not give birth, nor was He born. * And there is nothing like Him." 112:1-4.
=========

Quran says Jesus Is Not God

Bible Agrees with Quran word for word. – Bible Verses to prove it below: -

Most Christians believe that Jesus was and is God. That is what the institutional church has taught. Christians professedly rely strongly on the Bible for this belief. Yet there is not a single verse in the Bible which states unequivocally, “Jesus is God,” or the like. Moreover, the New Testament (NT) gospels have no statement by Jesus in which he identifies himself as God. In fact, there are many Bible verses which indicate that Jesus cannot be God by declaring that only the Father is God or by distinguishing Jesus from God. Three irrefutable texts in the NT declare both of these points.

Jesus Himself Teaches that Only the Father is God

First, and foremost, is one of Jesus’ sayings recorded only in the Gospel of John. The setting is the Last Supper, right before he was arrested and crucified. He prayed for his disciples, saying, “Father,… This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent” (John 17.3). So, Jesus says of the Father that he is “the only true God” and then distinguishes himself from that one God. Both of these points clearly indicate that Jesus himself cannot also be God.

There are two other times the Johannine Jesus identified the Father as the only God. Earlier, he told his Jewish opponents that the Father is “the one and only God” (John 5.44). And again, at the Last Supper, Jesus distinguished himself from this one and only God by commanding his disciples, “believe in God, believe also in Me” (14.1).

Paul Teaches that Only the Father is God

The other two NT passages which irrefutably establish that only the Father is God and distinguish Jesus from God are in Paul’s letters. He writes to the church at Corinth, “There is no God but one…. yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him” (1 Corinthians 8.4, 6). Here, Paul clearly declares that for Christians there is one God, who is the Father, and there is no other God, so that Jesus is not God.

Many traditionalist scholars cite this passage to support that Jesus preexisted, thus concluding that he was God. Yet in doing so, they often ignore its double declaration that there is only one God, who is the Father. Even if Jesus did preexist, this does not prove that he was God. Second Temple Judaism regarded that some righteous men preexisted, and Jews did not conclude that such preexistence indicated that they actually were God/gods.

The third irrefutable NT text which establishes that there is God, who is the Father, and distinguishes Jesus from God is in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians. He writes, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all” (Eph 4.4-6). Here, Paul implicitly identifies Jesus Christ as “one Lord” and distinguishes him from the “one God,” whom he unequivocally identifies as “the Father.” Paul is a unique author of NT literature in that he exclusively and consistently calls Jesus “Lord” and the Father “God.” Therefore, he never calls Jesus “God.”

So, these three NT passages—John 17.3; 1 Corinthians 8.4, 6; and Ephesians 4.4-6—establish without any doubt that only the Father is God, so that Jesus cannot be God.

Other Witnesses That Only the Father is God.

One of many other NT passages which confirm that Jesus is not God is his encounter with the rich young ruler. This man sincerely asked Jesus, “‘Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone’” (Mark 10.17-18/Luke 18.18-19; cf. Matthew 19.16-17).

Many Christians have been confused by this saying, thinking that Jesus implies that he himself is not good. Yet the NT often declares that Jesus was such a righteous man that he never sinned (Acts 3.14; 2 Corinthians 5.21; Hebrews 4.15; 7.26; 2 Peter 2.22).

Then what did Jesus mean when he said, “no one is good but God alone”? In the OT, Judaism, and especially Hellenistic theism, only the one God was considered “good” in an absolute sense. This must be what Jesus meant in this encounter. Humans were called “good” only in a derived sense, with God being recognized as the Source of goodness.

Many NT passages show that Jesus was not God. For instance, the NT often declares that God sent Jesus, God was with Jesus in his mission, and God raised him from the dead. Peter preached about “Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst” (Acts 2.22). Peter later proclaimed about “Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good, and healing all who were oppressed by the devil; for God was with Him” (10.38).

In the salutations of all ten of Paul’s NT letters he identifies God as the Father, distinguishes God from Jesus Christ, and he never mentions the Holy Spirit. He typically writes, “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” This evidence further affirms that only the Father is God and that Jesus is not God.

Moreover, the Bible contains several verses which state unambiguously that Jesus had a God, and most say his God was the Father. When Jesus hung upon the cross he quoted Psalm 22.1, crying out to the Father, “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME” (Matthew 27.46/Mark 15.34). The day Jesus was resurrected, he said to Mary Magdalene, “I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God” (John 20.17). And three times the Apostle Paul writes about “the God and Father of our/the Lord Jesus (Christ)” (Romans 15.6; 2 Corinthians 1.3; 11.31; cf. Ephesians 1.17). Finally, the heavenly Jesus is quoted five times saying “My God” (Revelation 3.2, 12; cf. 1.6).

The Verse that Made Me Think

The one verse that caused this author to first question whether Jesus is God is Jesus’ saying in his Olivet Discourse about the time of his return. He said, “But of that day and/or hour no one knows, not even the angels of/in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matthew 24.36/Mark 13.32). Since Jesus did not know the time of his return he could not have been God, for he reveals that God the Father did know it. Orthodox Christian theology has always insisted that God is omniscient, knowing everything, including everything about the future. Accordingly, Jesus could not have been God.

بارك الله فيك

Dr. James White - it’s exhausting watching you go round round and round in circles…. Christian American Men, think they are logical and well versed, what’s happening now, everybody has woken up and we start to see through the cracks… just look at people in America, think about Kamala Harris is speaking - she makes no sense, she just babbles words… that same babbling everyone in America is used too. Question everything, everyone has been given a brain to use logic.

After listening to this, it's painfully obvious Jake has no idea what the trinity is. And neither do any of the commenters in the chat. His whole presentation was based entirely on a strawman.