August - KAYLE Is More POWERFUL Than You Think (AZIR RYZE CASS)

It also helps that AP items are infinitely superior to any other kind of item in the game because Riot refuses to make mages require any effort to play.

Don't most popular tank items have mr too? Like locket and unending despair. Also tenacity shoes are very popular and they have mr too

Its worth mentioning that, with respect to marksmen specifically, there's more items that give magic resist with damage than there are armor items that give damage.

On a marksman vs magic, depending on if they're on-hit or high ad can pick up wit's end or mercurial scimitar. But vs physical they only have guardian angel to fall back on.
So funnily enough, the tradeoff is lower for the class that would in a vacuum have the hardest time.
Other classes all have 1 item to tech into for armor or mr, and we don't need to discuss tanks and fighters as they have many.

Its also worth noting that resistances have diminishing returns, so if characters have a higher base armor than base mr, that means one magic resist item goes further than one armor item.

My point being that I don't agree with August's take here, as it assumes either the players don't change their build path to respond to their opponents or they cant build enough magic resist to equalize the damage without forgoing too much from their own damage.

This is why I mained Teemo back when I played. Definetly not because I loved to watch people die (and die inside) stepping on shrooms 🤥

OK, but in context that means the enemy team has both an ADC like Jinx and magic damage dealer like Kayle.

If the argument is that building MR is too much of a tradeoff specifically because you're also not building armor against said Jinx in that case, that only shows how ADCs are the far greater threat and you need to prioritize dedending against them even if you also havemagic damage carries to worry about.

Because otherwise, if the trade off is just fewer damage items, looking broadly st all classes, it's much easier to add MR into your build than armor, if you need to dip into tank items and not just your class' defensives. On top of that individual MR items are stronger than individual armor items buck for buck.

That’s cool and all but on Xinli or Spear man that challenges them gets me ah about 75-85% HP full-clear, Qiyanna well only 35-50%.
Qiyanna jungle buff

Well the tank is running around building jaksho and my friend is flaming me for building 2 ad items and 2 ap items instead of a pen item for either...😢

not mentioning vladimir when talking about potent AP damage should be illegal

Yeah but reason kayle isn't as effective these days, is cuz tanks just kindve one hit you later on

I've still seen the likes of ryze and cass fail late game vs hyper carry adc. Although they do have good consistent damage output for a mage, they still don't keep up with a few of the attack speed adc's (Vayne, kog, jinx etc). Its close and certainly better than other mages, but its not the same. Kayle is the only real ap champ that can, perhaps the only comparable is kog or twitch, hard to compare them to kayle's ult though.

Kaenic my goat

Remember when they were true damage, and you couldn't itemize agaisnt them at all? Good times

Not to mention how much easier it is to directly counter ADCs with the 3 item lineup made to directly screw them specifically (Randuin, frozen heart and Thornmail). There's not an MR item made to really hinder casters beyond raw stats of MR (force of nature) and HP numbers (Rookern)

Fun fact: this only makes any semblance of difference in-game when you and your adc both have fingers

im building against kayle AND jinx...frozen heart is a friend :3

I remember Phreak talking about something similar when they did the mini rework on Corki: his new passive (15% bonus true damage) is less powerful in late than his old one (85% of damage was converted to magic damage, with no extras) because enemies have on average less magic resistance

Except it doesn’t matter if they have a jinx because any bruiser or assassin on your team can kill her before she blinks lmao

kassadin joined the chat.

Alot of tank items already have MR on them as a bonus. Merc treads for the CC reduction, spirit visage for the healing and shield boost, abyssal for the Magic Pen considering a lot of tank damage is also magic.

Yeah, no, it's not even that champs naturally have lower MR. The problem is that there are ZERO EFFECTIVE defensive items that you can build vs On-Hit AP as well as On-Hit AD. Combine the two, and you're basically unstoppable when people don't prioritize you as a threat. Combine that with a DoT AP champ on your team, and the enemy team is now beyond fucked because they can't itemize for both you and your DoT AP ally. that, and you lock it completely the fuck down with an AD Crit champion, and the enemy team now has to deal with the triple threat hyper carry combo that's basically unbeatable unless the people in control of said champs are actually blind, handless, and/or AFK.

i main ornn and ap kayle is at least put of lane pretty good considering shes basically an adc. but onhit is just the worst. it makes everything feel like a bad buy. cause she has hybrid %hp damage with e and botrk and the items. so no matter the stat she has a way to mitigate it. ap kayle i can build mr and some health.

but mainly anathema's and gargoyle's which don't exist now. please readd gargoyle's it was so fun as a tank to have a counter to champs that do fuck you levels of damage or anti tank and now teamfights just mean you explode.

I started to play when it was season 4 and i still refuse to fucking start to count some 0,01% and scale them up to some % damage ammount. I am so fucking out of what any of that shit even means, if english isnt your first language and you are not some wizard in math i am not sure how the fuck you would even count some of these things? Who has time to be counting shit in the middle of the game ?. Who has even time to be at shop and search for items ? I dont play videogames so i can do fucking insanely hard math with language and pics that i cant figure out what they mean. I still dont even have full grasp about lethality. How the fuck its not just armor pene?

Expect we can look at her dmg throughout her history and she has been bad most of history since her rework ...

love how this also simultaneously explains why APC have to be nerfed into the ground and kept weak. also why they genrally don't work. if there strong theres only a few champs thay can deal with them

The only thing agaisnt Kayle is that you are worst the a minion until lvl 6 and barely above until lvl 11, and you only come online at lvl 16, so your team have to carry you until then or you lose the game 4x5. How can anyone lose a lane against a Kayle is beyond comprehension.

But if the team only has magic dmg, the tank will be unkillable. A full AD team is much easier to operate than full AP, the only reason why ADC still a role

agree, especially since in soloqueue you are guaranteed to have a yone, yasuo, irelia or zed midlane thats 0/10, so the enemy team will most likely build mr anyways lets be real

But this comes at a price of MR being EXTREMLY potent. Ask any mage player what Merc boots can do against a mage in laning or hell, just the 450 gold component. It’s worst if it’s one full MR item, your damage tanks harder than an ADC health bar getting assassinated. Which brings back to why AD assassins feels really unfair to itemize again. Lethality items plus LDR or Mortal Reminder can still pop you even aginst full armor item tank.

This is why the meta has ahifted to full burst, why build full armor when i’ll die just a split second later than usual or ADC changing to burst rotation build like lethality.

And remember guys, if you are ADC and it's minute 24, its better to buy LDR than IE because the 40% shred is effective against everyone since armor scales per level and by then everyone has 100 armor at least

Then why did Riot remove Gargoyles Stoneplate????

Buy 450g of mr and you are fine

Didnt say teemo smh

If split/hybrid damage is so strong why is it so prevalent in the game?

I wonder what would happen if you were to revive Vlauromyrk as a Dracolich? 🤔

I miss the days where people actually used math when playing.
I had my own calculation sheets in order to buy gear that benefit me the most depending on enemy teams gearing and dmg. I was rank 127 in EU and my team rank 1-2 most of the time...

I wish people stopper meta simulation gaming

Its funny because this only applies to kayle. Build 1 mr item against any mage and theyre cooked 😂

As a tank main I seriously prefer going into heavy ap rather than heavy ad. The game is utterly filled with anti armor right now. Black cleaver (which is built near every game) plus lord doms means Adc ignores 60 percent of my armor in teamfights. And characters that already have built in armor pen get around same reduction without needing a teammate. Whereas no one builds bloodletters and few build voidstaff.

Ah yes jayle broken but wait till you play against a tahm supp or mundo thats stacking mr with hearsteel what then?

She used to do true damage, even wilder

Nothing matters until soft inting is fixed

Reason why baus used to go magic resist shard even when against an ad laner, it just has more value

Notice when you get oneshot its most after ap :D

Sure, kayle has OP damage. That is if she can survive before dealing those reliably. K'sante doesnt have huge damage but he can keep on dealing damage and gap close reliably.

then there is k'sante, building full armor and taking healing from the enemy AP champs

Still the fact that you go one Magic Resist Item and 99% of the AP champs are useless basically is the definition of unbalanced. Bruh play some other games.

Not biilding against the ad carry that the team is almost garantee to have. Meanwhile duo mages bot lane because they way stronger than adc in early game.

This is why Teemo is the best carry of all time

Also as Jax you think you can win vs kayle because your E but late game after 16 she outranges your leapstrike and can kite with W move speed to get atleast a good couple attacks off before you catch up so now you need E to even aproach but the wave damage still goes through and she can use her ult to negate the stun and start hitting after it ends before you can do damage to her you are already low at this point because and she then outdps you even if through your ult. From what I have seen the best ways to counter her are long range artillery/ control mages or hyper mobile assassins or fighters like zed or yone.

Maw of malmortious, Wits end are some of the most powerful MR items and can be built by any damage character with little sacrifice.

To top it off tanks have lots of good MR options and the only good anti mr item is void staff somthing you dont want to rush.

Ad champs have also had all their anti tank items giga nerfed as of recently so they aren't even a serious threat.

August is just a pro yapper

Would adaptive helm have been good against that?